Condition Washing and Water Soluable 'Cones

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Quick Question: is protein-free condition washing sufficient enough to wash out (water soluable) 'cones in styling products?

Cones such as amodimethicones and dimethicones? I understand these two to be water soluable.

Thank you for your help.

 

[KittenLongPaw]

Hi

Amodimethicone and dimethicone by themselves aren't water soluble. Amodimethicone is water soluble in the bottle, but not in your hair (which is confusing, I know). If you see these cones in your products and they have 'PEG' in the name, then they are water soluble and should just rinse out of your hair with plain water. Also dimethicone copoyl (I think that's how you spell it) is water soluble too. HTH.

 

[PaperClip]

Hi

Amodimethicone and dimethicone by themselves aren't water soluble. Amodimethicone is water soluble in the bottle, but not in your hair (which is confusing, I know). If you see these cones in your products and they have 'PEG' in the name, then they are water soluble and should just rinse out of your hair with plain water. Also dimethicone copoyl (I think that's how you spell it) is water soluble too. HTH.

Yes, this helps greatly! Thank you much! BTW, BEAUTIFUL HAIR!!

 

[KittenLongPaw]

Thank you! I'm glad I could help. I learned everything I know about cones on Naturallycurly.com, they are very knowledgeable about those things

 

[AtlantaJJ]

For a newbie, why are ''cones bad? I am thinking about purchasing a highly popular product line that contains dimethicone as one of it's top ingrediants. I will venture to guess that a cone could cause a build up over time and will dry the hair out eventually. That is an uneducated guess. What are the benefits of cones?

Thanks for helping me learn.

JJ

 

[preciousjewel76]

For a newbie, why are ''cones bad? I am thinking about purchasing a highly popular product line that contains dimethicone as one of it's top ingrediants. I will venture to guess that a cone could cause a build up over time and will dry the hair out eventually. That is an uneducated guess. What are the benefits of cones?

Thanks for helping me learn.

JJ

Silicones add shine and "slip" to hair products. They coat the hair strand and seal the cuticle. This helps keep hair from tangling. The downside is that some silicone products can buildup on the hair shaft and need to be removed by a shampoo containing a sulfate or other cleansing agent which can also strip moisture from the hair.

 

[AtlantaJJ]

Silicones add shine and "slip" to hair products. They coat the hair strand and seal the cuticle. This helps keep hair from tangling. The downside is that some silicone products can buildup on the hair shaft and need to be removed by a shampoo containing a sulfate or other cleansing agent which can also strip moisture from the hair.

I can see the set up for a visious cycle here. Use cones, cause build up, use stripping poo...need slip, use cones....

Is neutrilzing shampoo good for striping cones? I love optimum's it feels like a moisturizing shampoo.... I need to read the ingredients.

 

[lsubabiedee]

Hi

Amodimethicone and dimethicone by themselves aren't water soluble. Amodimethicone is water soluble in the bottle, but not in your hair (which is confusing, I know). If you see these cones in your products and they have 'PEG' in the name, then they are water soluble and should just rinse out of your hair with plain water. Also dimethicone copoyl (I think that's how you spell it) is water soluble too. HTH.

wow. that's some good info. im glad i came in here.

 

[preciousjewel76]

I can see the set up for a visious cycle here. Use cones, cause build up, use stripping poo...need slip, use cones....

Is neutrilzing shampoo good for striping cones? I love optimum's it feels like a moisturizing shampoo.... I need to read the ingredients.

It really seems to depend on the 'cone you're trying to remove. Some "milder" 'cones, like simethicone (in S-Curl), can be removed with gentle cleansers like cocamidopropyl betaine (which is a natrually derived cleanser; it's in Elucence shampoo). Other 'cones have to be removed with sulfate-based cleansers like sodium lauryl/laureth sulfate. These can really strip your hair. I know from experience! (Aphogee shampoo - shudder )

Try doing a Google search on the particular 'cones in your products. There are some good pages out there that tell you what it takes to remove those 'cones. And as previously mentioned, naturallycurly.com has some forums devoted to this topic.

 

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ETA: Advise using the link to see the article in its original format. The table did not paste well here.

Here's some additional info from nc.com:

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlcolumns/articles.php?id=5341

We always get lots of questions about silicones, as they are in so many products and are of ongoing concern to many curly-haired consumers. I thought this month we could tackle a couple of those questions in a quick, practical manner (hopefully) to aid in the seemingly never-ending process of ingredient scrutiny and product selection.

Q: Is there any way to rank silicones in order of their water solubility and also recommend the best surfactants to remove each category?

A: It is difficult to actually rank the silicones in order of water solubility, simply because they are usually either soluble or not. Most silicones are water insoluble due to being non-polar, but there are a few that are chemically modified in order to render them more compatible with water. The following table lists the main types of silicones found in hair care formulations. It also indicates whether or not they are water soluble and includes which surfactants can be used to ensure good removal of the silicone from the hair. Studies done by Dow Corning have found that the water-insoluble silicones show no appreciable buildup when a shampoo containing one of the recommended surfactants was used.

Silicone
Water soluble?
Recommended cleansing agents

Dimethicone
No​

SLS, SLES, cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, ALS, or ALES

Dimethiconol
No​

SLS, SLES, cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, ALS, or ALES

Phenyl Trimethicone
No​

SLS, SLES, cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, ALS, or ALES

Amodimethicone
No​

SLS, SLES, cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, ALS, or ALES

Cyclomethicone
No​

cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, other mild surfactants, or conditioner washing

PEG-modified dimethicone
Yes​

cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, other mild surfactants, or conditioner washing

Dimethicone copolyol
Yes​

cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, other mild surfactants, or conditioner washing


Q: What is the purpose of silicone in a shampoo? (And also, can a shampoo really be moisturizing?)

A: Many currently available shampoos include silicones in the ingredient list. These additives act as conditioning agents, due to their ability to deposit onto the surface of the hair and form a film during the rinsing phase of the shampooing process.* This helps moisturize the hair by replacing oils stripped from the hair by the cleansing agents in the shampoo. Initially these were marketed as two-in-one products, but now they are found in a wide variety of products, especially as new properties are discovered, such as the ability of some silicones to enhance hair color retention. The inclusion of other oils in a shampoo can have a similarly moisturizing effect.

One interesting thing to note is that a published study in the Journal of Cosmetic science reports finding that the presence of cationic polymer (polyquaternium-10, in this study) significantly decreased the buildup of dimethicone on the hair over time.** The presence of these cationic polymers also enhances the deposition of the silicone onto the surface of the hair. Due to this synergy between the two types of ingredients, they will often be used together by formulators in shampoos.

Silicones offer many benefits, both to the hair care product formulator and the end-user. Careful reading of labels and understanding which silicones require occasional removal with surfactant-containing shampoos can allow the consumer to enjoy all of the good effects of silicones (softness, shine, better color retention, increased manageability), while suffering none of the ill effects of build-up.

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlcolumns/articles.php?id=5341#_ftnref1* Marchioretto, S., Optimizing the Use of Silicones in Haircare Products”, Dow Corning Europe, 1998

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlcolumns/articles.php?id=5341#_ftnref2** Gruber JV; Lamoureux BR; Joshi N; Moral L, J.Cosmetic Sci; 2004, 52 (2), 131-136, The use of x-ray fluorescent spectroscopy to study the influence of cationic polymers on silicone oil deposition from shampoo

 

[AtlantaJJ]

Thank you! Wow that's super information ! ! !

I was a little slow on the uptake at work, reading this subject.

Cones are mainly a problem for people who don't shampoo at all. I would think natural heads would avoid cones if they don't want to shampoo. I know that a touch up will strip a cone and his momma from the hair so that alone would help stop build up on relaxed hair... I remember when I used to get Cellophanes, I hated getting relaxers because the cream would be all grape colored because it was stripping the dye off my hair!

Ya'll are bringing back the days of the salon to my mind. I've been away from them for so long. I think around Easter I'm going to treat myself to a Domincan salon visit....

 

[Amylee]

OMG !!! I'm so glad I read this!!!

Thank you so much relaxer rehab. It is very clear and useful.Thanks again

Preciousjewel, do you know if simethicone can be removed with conditioner washing?

 

[preciousjewel76]

OMG !!! I'm so glad I read this!!!

Thank you so much relaxer rehab. It is very clear and useful.Thanks again

Preciousjewel, do you know if simethicone can be removed with conditioner washing?

From what I've read, it can only be removed by a surfactant like cocamidopropyl betaine or one of the sulfates (SLS, SLES, etc.). I don't think too many conditioners contain these, but you may want to do some research. Personally, I don't worry about S-Curl buildup because I shampoo 1x/week with Elucence.

I think this is why natural websites, like MotownGirl and Nappturality, recommend limited their use of cones if you don't plan to shampoo. I don't know if cowashes will remove those....

 

[StrawberryQueen]

Good information! Why'd this get one star I wonder? Has this been discussed before?

 

[Amylee]

From what I've read, it can only be removed by a surfactant like cocamidopropyl betaine or one of the sulfates (SLS, SLES, etc.). I don't think too many conditioners contain these, but you may want to do some research. Personally, I don't worry about S-Curl buildup because I shampoo 1x/week with Elucence.

I think this is why natural websites, like MotownGirl and Nappturality, recommend limited their use of cones if you don't plan to shampoo. I don't know if cowashes will remove those....

Thank you Preciousjewel !!! You are such a sweet girl to help us like that

Actually, I haven't bought S-Curl yet. But I found simethicone in my design essentials therapeutics Rx leave-in conditioner.

I'll try to get a gentle shampoo with cocamidopropyl betaine to remove it.

 

[bgsix]

Great thread and valuable information.

 

[KhandiB]

I Love Cones All my products have them actually ..

I also clarify with every wash though

 

[gn1g]

How did I miss this.

I've been trying to figure out what was causing my childs hair to be soooo dry on the ends. I bet it's the cones.

Do you all think an ACV rinse would remove the cone buildup?

 

[KittenLongPaw]

How did I miss this.

I've been trying to figure out what was causing my childs hair to be soooo dry on the ends. I bet it's the cones.

Do you all think an ACV rinse would remove the cone buildup?

No, ACV won't remove (non-water soluble) cones. Shampoo with sulfates or coco betaine would though. I would try that

 

[scorpian]

Bumping for Tanisha 77..............

 

[morehairplease]

thanks for this thread ladies! Recently, I have been cw since going natural this time around and this information is greatly needed/appreciated.

 

[JustKiya]

Subbing to this thread like I should have before - FABULOUS information!!!

 

[AtlantaJJ]

Good information! Why'd this get one star I wonder? Has this been discussed before?

One star nubbett has been making the rounds - - hatin

 

[ackee walk]

subscribing