Is 4b hair DESIGNED to be SHORT?

[laurend]

Don't get me wrong my hair is MBL. However, it's not full MBL and it seems that people who have hair like mine and are waist length are either short or stayed in protective hairstyles for weeks on in for many years.

 

[Kurlee]

long story short:

good hair vs. bad hair will never leave us

 

[DaDragonPrincess]

Girl no, if thats the case I wouldn't be MBL...look around this hair forum, lots of ladies of 4a-4b hair and long...
​

 

[laurend]

long story short:

good hair vs. bad hair will never leave us

I don't think people here were thinking that 4b hair is bad I think people were stating it is what it is. It takes a lot to get 4b hair to certain length that's it.

 

[Bnster]

Maybe shorter but not short. What I mean by this is type 4 hair can be long especially when stretched, but naturally it winds itself back up (like a spring) because the curls are tight. In that perspective type 4 hair left to its on accord tends to be shorter but it is deceiving because the true length of the hair is all bound up in all the tightly beautiful curls. I love feeling my new growth coils and unbounding them to see how much new growth I have. There are lots of naturals with long hair unstretched so there is a more wow factor when it is stretched. I love seeing that.

 

[jupitermoon]

But just because we have to do things differently than people with type 1 or 2 hair, does not mean it is designed to be short? Why are type 1 and 2 hair types always the standard of hair or hair care in general? 4b is TIGHTLY coiled hair, while types 1 and 2 or not. IT IS A GIVEN that we take care of our hair in different manners.


It is sort of like body types. Are people who easily gain weight compared to those with fast metabolism/remain skinny meant to be obese? No. Yes, some people who need to work harder to maintain a healthy/athletic shape, but it does not mean they are doing something unnatural.

This is how I feel. It may be harder for some but I think most people can grow hair that is at least bra strap.

Interesting thread and I like reading everyone's views.

 

[SND411]

Why do people think just because our coils rewind on to itself, our hair is designed to be short? Here we go again with thinking types 1 and 2 are the standard. So long hair is only considered long when it appears to grow vertically down your back like straighter textures? I do not know about anyone else, but I can tell when someone with 4b hair IRL has long hair by the size of their afro. Why cant long hair also be the circumference/radius of an afro? I have very coarse 4b hair and even at this point in my journey, my afro is starting to hang.

 

[SND411]

Health: excellent
Exercise: Exercise physiologist and fitness instructor
Eating habits look at the above
The difference, yes I agree with is genetics, I have 4a hair and she has 3 c hair.

So what about women with all your stats with 3b/3c hair that are still not at YOUR length?

 

[Kurlee]

I don't think people here were thinking that 4b hair is bad I think people were stating it is what it is. It takes a lot to get 4b hair to certain length that's it.

I think u just might be jaded from your experience. It's not a good idea to compare yourself to others, because you might assume too much and discount yourself. I'm a 4a and my girlfriend is a silky, shiny and THICK, 3a and her hair never passes her shoulders. She tries everything, lurks on the board, uses good products, even PS with weaves and hair stays around just about shoulder length and no, she's not relaxed. I think people need to find what works FOR THEIR particular head, because there are wayyyyyyyy too many factors (like someone said "internal chemistry", growth factors and such) that go into hair growth and retention, that go beyond someones curl pattern, to sum up that certain hair types are just meant to do anything.

 

[naijamerican]

I agree with the OP, Mwedzi, and the above statement. I have mainly 4a hair but it hasn't grown a long as others on the board. Me and LennieB were the same length at one time but she has surpassed me and is waist length. I have been doing all the right techniques so I asked myself why? Why aren't I waist length also? The only thing I probably have to do differently is staying in a protective hair style 4 to 6 weeks at a time. I hate that because protective hairstyles aren't the best look for me.

I see what you're saying. You're not arguing that 4B hair can't grow. You're talking about the fact that, in order to look long (long as we know "long" to be, not including what SND has pointed out ) it takes different techniques (low-maintenance/low manipulation styles).

Having said that, I think there's something to what SND is saying. Why constrain our definition of "long" to be vertical down our backs? Why not vertical up to the sky, or horizontal as our coils stretch out? Honestly, I've never thought of it that way. I'm glad that you pointed it out, SND.

 

[SND411]

Maybe its just me, but I have witnesses many 4bs (here, youtube, blogs, etc.) that do not have to do a lot with their hair in order for it to grow long. I see some people on this forum that have 3a/3b/3c with regimens that are like mine x7, more time consuming than mine, that probably cost them $100 more than my budget for hair products.

 

[Nonie]

Health: excellent
Exercise: Exercise physiologist and fitness instructor
Eating habits look at the above
The difference, yes I agree with is genetics, I have 4a hair and she has 3 c hair.

So what about women with all your stats with 3b/3c hair that are still not at YOUR length?

Exactly!

Laurend, there's also the issue of growth cycle. Yours might not be as long as say Stephanie Suthers' so that may also explain why your growth may seem to have stopped at MBL.

 

[Freespirit02]

No, I don't think it's designed to be short. I don't have 4b hair but I believe all hair grows. My best friends hair is 4zzz and relaxed and it's APL. It's all about what you do to retain length. My hair doesn't need a relaxer. It's curly but grows in straight and I was practically bald because I wasn't taking care of my hair. I think people feel my hair should be long because of it's texture but bottom line, no matter what texture, hair can be long if maintained properly

And what type hair needs a perm??..i'm going to leave that one alone..

 

[Kurlee]

And what type hair needs a perm??..i'm going to leave that one alone..

people telling on themselves

 

[Freespirit02]

To the OP..i'm sorry you are going through this dilemma with your hair. I hope you find something that works. I personally haven't had this problem..i actually find my hair is easier to manage natural..than with it permed/relax..but that's just me.

 

[Freespirit02]

I'm liking the responses

I wonder what our big lips and wide/flat noses are for? hmmm...??? Anybody wanna take a stab at it? I'm curious.....(or I could just google it )

not all black ppl have big lips...or wide/flat noses. Lord let me get out of this thread...

 

[naijamerican]

And what type hair needs a perm??..i'm going to leave that one alone..

4B hair. Didn't you know? erplexed



I'm going to trust that the poster didn't mean it the way it came across.

 

[Kurlee]

not all black ppl have big lips...or wide/flat noses. Lord let me get out of this thread...

the ignorance is just

 

[Freespirit02]

the ignorance is just

i guess so. I don't know what is more disturbing..that ppl still think like that or it was a black woman who said it..

 

[naijamerican]

To the OP..i'm sorry you are going through this dilemma with your hair. I hope you find something that works. I personally haven't had this problem..i actually find my hair is easier to manage natural..than with it permed/relax..but that's just me.

It's funny that you say this, because I've been natural for so long that the prospect of getting a relaxer kind of scares me. I don't know what I would do to my hair and I would have to search these forums far and wide for advice.

I also thought of something else that Nonie brought up earlier in this thread. She was arguing against the idea that 4B hair is more time consuming because of issues like detangling, styling, etc. and she said that if you don't embrace this as a hobby, it will seem like a daunting task, taking care of your hair. For me, I don't at all mind what some might perceive to be the styling limitations of low-manipulation styles because I actually prefer those styles. I like braids and I really like twists. They look good on me. And if I ever want to use heat, I'll follow Mwedzi's method of doing so. But I like the freedom of braids and twists because I'm a busy student and I've started exercising more often (and I hope to become even more active). I don't know... I just kind of feel like, after so long of disliking my hair, I've come to accept and welcome its nuances and to see things in a different light.

Anyway... I just wanted to say that.

 

[bebee10]

Maybe shorter but not short. What I mean by this is type 4 hair can be long especially when stretched, but naturally it winds itself back up (like a spring) because the curls are tight. In that perspective type 4 hair left to its on accord tends to be shorter but it is deceiving because the true length of the hair is all bound up in all the tightly beautiful curls. I love feeling my new growth coils and unbounding them to see how much new growth I have. There are lots of naturals with long hair unstretched so there is a more wow factor when it is stretched. I love seeing that.

I think this def makes ALOT of sense. so if this is true then one CAN say that "4b hair is not meant to be short" "but is short by design"?erplexed?

 

[Rei]

not all black ppl have big lips...or wide/flat noses. Lord let me get out of this thread...

Come on now you know what she meant. Not all black people have 4b hair either, but you cannot deny that that is a characteristic that is commonly associated with black folk. Not all black folk have 4b afros yes. not all black folk have flat noses true. not all black people have large lips. however the non-aquiline nose and larger lips are a common trait of black folk. this is not ignorance, its just a generalized statement.

damn some of ya'll are seriously reaching for drama with this

 

[femmemuscle]

Just ordered my copy of "hair story" on Amazon.com. You can get it "used" for $.81!!! That's it! less than a dollar!!

I just bought out the last $.77 copy!! Hurry! i think Nonie started something

 

[mscocoface]

I really appreciate SND4's posts asking us about what our own standards of hair actually are.

Nonetheless, I really want to focus on what SimJam said, especially her last paragraph. What are some of the techniques and methods that people are using to detangle their hair? Some of us, due to a variety of factors, want to have long hair. So what are people doing to achieve it?

For me, detangling is not a nightmare per se, but it does take about 30 minutes and I probably don't have more than 5 inches of hair (I big chopped last year and had a quarter of an inch of hair, even though I've been natural for several years. I just wanted to try something different. ). I use the following tools:

1. Widetooth seamless comb
2. Finer-toothed seamless comb
3. Castor oil
4. Conditioner with slip (Elucence or Aubrey Organics)

I purchased the combs from www.hotcombs.net; I use the Hercules Sägemann line.

I will soon begin incorporating rice bran oil, hemp seed oil, and wheat germ oils as MsCocoface does. I kind of wish she would weigh in on this discussion because she has magnificent 4B hair that's about bra-strap length, and she wears her hair in twists and braids.

I am here.

Just want to give a major and to all my 4B sistahs who have been on this journey and dropping some serious knowledge up in this joint.

Thank you NA for asking for me.

I agree with what many are talking saying and the fact that this has been a frank, honest, open and civil conversation regarding this type of hair that let's be honest many fear and some are terrified of dealing with.

For the question that OP asked. I do NOT believe our hair is designed to be short. I have seen it in too many lengths from looking at pictures of ladies in Africa and other countries to those here in the states that have grown their hair to lengths many of us hope to have one day.

I believe part of our issue is that our hair does not have the history or we have lost the history of how to keep it healthy and growing. When for hundreds of years you have had the MENTAL mind set of it being called bad, hard, difficult, (insert every negative remark you remember here), etc. You walk into even salons and hairdressers cop major attitude and even on this site which has been in existence for less than 10 years you may catch a comment or two that may make you say ouch and we are still learning the different ways in which to help support this cottony mass of wonderfulness we call 4B hair. I will admit we don't have as many hair idols when it comes to our texture. But the list is steady growing. Just think what the list was like just 5 years ago.

BUT - having said all that. I see us as the pioneers to learn more and to educate many regarding our texture and what we can do to make things easier when understanding how to grow our hair. I realize there will be no cookie cutter method per se but just like I have learned over the past few months (and I have been on this journey for many many years) I will probably continue to learn more about things to help my hair.

Even in that last 2 months I can say that two major changes have taken place for me in education and that is learning about PH balance for the hair and using oils with ceremides. Who knew for me this would cut down on my tangles and knots to the point where I no longer fear washing and combing. My detangling time has been cut to almost nothing. Now if I had given up, decided to go back to relaxers or just deal with pressing and curling, I would probably not have found this out and defintely would not be commenting in this thread.

Now my number 1 challenge yes it is number 1 even over detangling has been shrinkage. Many of you have witness my issue with this and I have to tell you the shrinkage my hair can have would make grown women cry and huddle in a corner sucking their thumbs. No joke!

But I determined that there has to be a way (Mental Shift) to deal with this and continue on my journey of natural hair. I am happy to report I am becoming more CONTENT and accepting of what my hair can and cannot do and have learned ways to work my hair where it shows some of my length in its natural state. Has this been easy to do? NO, I have been frustrated, angry, discouraged, defeated, everything under the sun. It is all about the journey because just like this thread and folks wondering and having epiphanies there will be others who will read or hear my testimony or yours regarding all the wonders of this hair type.

I would like to encourage, dare I say challenge all of you to keep learning, keep accepting your hair and its texture and learning what your hair needs versus what you think it needs. There is no magical mixture or elixir, it is trial and error in most cases and sometimes what works now may not work later, but I can promise you when you find the right balance and regimen it is some serious hallelujah shouting good times.

And please remember there are a few of us on this board who will make the time to talk with you and when needed to listen to your highs and lows when dealing with your crowning glory!

If this post helps just one person, then my journey has been worth it. Seriously

Thanks for the post OP. Great conversation!

 

[naijamerican]

I am here.

Just want to give a major and to all my 4B sistahs who have been on this journey and dropping some serious knowledge up in this joint.

Thank you NA for asking for me.

I agree with what many are talking saying and the fact that this has been a frank, honest, open and civil conversation regarding this type of hair that let's be honest many fear and some are terrified of dealing with.

For the question that OP asked. I do NOT believe our hair is designed to be short. I have seen it in too many lengths from looking at pictures of ladies in Africa and other countries to those here in the states that have grown their hair to lengths many of us hope to have one day.

I believe part of our issue is that our hair does not have the history or we have lost the history of how to keep it healthy and growing. When for hundreds of years you have had the MENTAL mind set of it being called bad, hard, difficult, (insert every negative remark you remember here), etc. You walk into even salons and hairdressers cop major attitude and even on this site which has been in existence for less than 10 years you may catch a comment or two that may make you say ouch and we are still learning the different ways in which to help support this cottony mass of wonderfulness we call 4B hair. I will admit we don't have as many hair idols when it comes to our texture. But the list is steady growing. Just think what the list was like just 5 years ago.

BUT - having said all that. I see us as the pioneers to learn more and to educate many regarding our texture and what we can do to make things easier when understanding how to grow our hair. I realize there will be no cookie cutter method per se but just like I have learned over the past few months (and I have been on this journey for many many years) I will probably continue to learn more about things to help my hair.

Even in that last 2 months I can say that two major changes have taken place for me in education and that is learning about PH balance for the hair and using oils with ceremides. Who knew for me this would cut down on my tangles and knots to the point where I no longer fear washing and combing. My detangling time has been cut to almost nothing. Now if I had given up, decided to go back to relaxers or just deal with pressing and curling, I would probably not have found this out and defintely would not be commenting in this thread.

Now my number 1 challenge yes it is number 1 even over detangling has been shrinkage. Many of you have witness my issue with this and I have to tell you the shrinkage my hair can have would make grown women cry and huddle in a corner sucking their thumbs. No joke!

But I determined that there has to be a way (Mental Shift) to deal with this and continue on my journey of natural hair. I am happy to report I am becoming more CONTENT and accepting of what my hair can and cannot do and have learned ways to work my hair where it shows some of my length in its natural state. Has this been easy to do? NO, I have been frustrated, angry, discouraged, defeated, everything under the sun. It is all about the journey because just like this thread and folks wondering and having epiphanies there will be others who will read or hear my testimony or yours regarding all the wonders of this hair type.

I would like to encourage, dare I say challenge all of you to keep learning, keep accepting your hair and its texture and learning what your hair needs versus what you think it needs. There is no magical mixture or elixir, it is trial and error in most cases and sometimes what works now may not work later, but I can promise you when you find the right balance and regimen it is some serious hallelujah shouting good times.

And please remember there are a few of us on this board who will make the time to talk with you and when needed to listen to your highs and lows when dealing with your crowning glory!

If this post helps just one person, then my journey has been worth it. Seriously

Thanks for the post OP. Great conversation!

This was a fabulous post. I'm so glad you came in. I love the bolded in particular!

Do you mind sharing what you've learned about PH balance? And am I correct in the oils that you're using?

 

[notlookingback06]

OP, I think that this is a very honest and fair question as I have type 4 hair (a mix of 4a/4b & a lil' 3c IMHO) and I had this same thought when I went natural 4yrs ago. I intentionally kept my predominately type 4 hair cut short for about the first two years of my natural journey because of the ease of managing it; in addition to my hair type, my hair is very thick! My mother says that the texture, the density and the length that I had as a 7yr old girl (an inch or two below MBL) was the reason that she gave me my first relaxer and hair cut at the ripe old age of 7yrs old!!!

Nevertheless, as others have stated in response to your thread, if you do a search of some of the ladies on here and YouTube with type 4 hair (I'll include myself in your search) you'll see that the way that you care for your type 4 hair, makes all the difference. My hair is incredibly managable and I can do it in so many different styles, ALL without heat, breakage or trims....

Again, it's about the time, care, and attention that you give your hair, and you and your hair deserve time, care, and attention!

Be encouraged and don't give up!

 

[mscocoface]

This was a fabulous post. I'm so glad you came in. I love the bolded in particular!

Do you mind sharing what you've learned about PH balance? And am I correct in the oils that you're using?

Yes, you are correct about the oils. I have always been an oils person my hair seems to thrive with them. This may not be the case with others but for me my hair loves it. I have been using the ceremides type oils and the detangling and softness has been drastic to say the least.

As for the PH balance I looked at the youtuber Kimmaytube and listen to what she had to say about PH balance. One of my big issues was how crunchy may hair would be and the fact that as I was putting it in twists or braids and as it was drying it would just be hard and crunchy and the ends would be like miniature tumbleweeds they were just balls and hard at that.

Well I changed my leave in to a lower PH and tweeked a little my conditioner with one of the ceremide oils and and there has been a MAJOR difference. Not more tumbleweeds and the ends of my twists.

I also do an oil conditioning with the Hemp Seed Oil before I hit the shower to wash my hair and it helps with the detangling when I am in the shower.

Just a few simple changes nothing huge and I am seeing huge benefits. I can now go weeks with the same style and do cowashing and no longer run the risk of it dreading like it use to do.

I have a spray that I mix with a little of one the cereimide oils and a braid spray or whatever I find in my cabinet and I use it to spritz my hair daily just to give it some moisture. Also I can undo my twists when they are dry. I could never evah think of doing that before or I would be in serious trouble and looking for scissors to cut out the tangle at the bottom losing some serious length.

You guys know what I am talking about the sound of snap, crackle and pop when you take your hair down from braids or twists, yeah that sound, well for me that is looong gone now.

 

[mscocoface]

OP, I think that this is a very honest and fair question as I have type 4 hair (a mix of 4a/4b & a lil' 3c IMHO) and I had this same thought when I went natural 4yrs ago. I intentionally kept my predominately type 4 hair cut short for about the first two years of my natural journey because of the ease of managing it; in addition to my hair type, my hair is very thick! My mother says that the texture, the density and the length that I had as a 7yr old girl (an inch or two below MBL) was the reason that she gave me my first relaxer and hair cut at the ripe old age of 7yrs old!!!

Nevertheless, as others have stated in response to your thread, if you do a search of some of the ladies on here and YouTube with type 4 hair (I'll include myself in your search) you'll see that the way that you care for your type 4 hair, makes all the difference. My hair is incredibly managable and I can do it in so many different styles, ALL without heat, breakage or trims....

Again, it's about the time, care, and attention that you give your hair, and you and your hair deserve time, care, and attention!

Be encouraged and don't give up!

Can't thank you enough on these boled. You have got to keep your mind strong about what it is your are trying to accomplish and know that you are in it for the long haul.

 

[notlookingback06]

subbing! this thread is very interesting and enlightening....

 

[naijamerican]

Yes, you are correct about the oils. I have always been an oils person my hair seems to thrive with them. This may not be the case with others but for me my hair loves it. I have been using the ceremides type oils and the detangling and softness has been drastic to say the least.

As for the PH balance I looked at the youtuber Kimmaytube and listen to what she had to say about PH balance. One of my big issues was how crunchy may hair would be and the fact that as I was putting it in twists or braids and as it was drying it would just be hard and crunchy and the ends would be like miniature tumbleweeds they were just balls and hard at that.

Well I changed my leave in to a lower PH and tweeked a little my conditioner with one of the ceremide oils and and there has been a MAJOR difference. Not more tumbleweeds and the ends of my twists.

I also do an oil conditioning with the Hemp Seed Oil before I hit the shower to wash my hair and it helps with the detangling when I am in the shower.

Just a few simple changes nothing huge and I am seeing huge benefits. I can now go weeks with the same style and do cowashing and no longer run the risk of it dreading like it use to do.

I have a spray that I mix with a little of one the cereimide oils and a braid spray or whatever I find in my cabinet and I use it to spritz my hair daily just to give it some moisture. Also I can undo my twists when they are dry. I could never evah think of doing that before or I would be in serious trouble and looking for scissors to cut out the tangle at the bottom losing some serious length.

You guys know what I am talking about the sound of snap, crackle and pop when you take your hair down from braids or twists, yeah that sound, well for me that is looong gone now.

Thank you so much; this is extremely helpful.

Just another question for clarification: what leave-in are you using? Also, do you still use Ayurvedic products for your hair?

Thanks again so much! At this point in this thread it would be most useful to trade tips on what works for different women.