Protein Q&A

[divachyk]

Protein Q&A (learning to use them properly)

I'm on a quest to learn more about proteins so that I can comfortably break out my protein products and not worry about the impact it might have on my hair. How did you determine what protein ingredients your hair loves?

I'm relaxed with low porosity and have struggled with protein usage since starting my HHJ. It took a few protein overloads to recognize that my hair is protein sensitive. I rarely use protein but when I do, I use the wet/strand test to gauge when protein is needed. However, I'm not comfortable with using protein because of my past experiences. I now only use reconstructors as I feel heavy proteins are just too much for my hair.

ETA:
This link gives an overview of the various proteins and I refer to it often.
This link gives how to test for protein/moisture.

 

[faithVA]

Please share more about what the wet strand test is.

As you know I have had no luck with protein. I have heard people say when your hair feels mushy. I do not remember a time when my hair has every felt mushy. My hair is very protein sensitive.

So I am not sure what type of protein my hair needs. And because my hair shows very little sign of needing protein, I am not sure when my hair needs protein.

I tried AO GPB 1 or 2 months ago and my ends were just snapping like crazy. Also I ended up with a headful of SSKs because my hair was just dry and not retaining moisture. Now I am cowashing several times a week and my breakage is starting to cease. My hair is starting to feel moisturized again.

 

[Nix08]

My hair doesn't dislike any particular protein(that I'm aware of). I've sought out to have a varied array of proteins in my stash and use them interchangeably (maybe it was my excuse to be a PJ). Like you I do a wet strand test (and I'm only ultra careful of the protein I use when I am steaming it in). I only use reconstructors or products that have protein in the first few ingredients. I do cowash daily and use protein at least 2 times a week.

SAA is a protein that I don't believe you can over load on (Initially I was afraid of protein and only used this but it wasn't enough) I use this with most steam sessions (I add it to my avg). I also have a couple canadian brand reconstructor and conditioners with this that I use.

Millcreek Keratin conditioner is a fantastic protein treatment...when I need an extra umph of protein this is what I use. Also the week before after and 6 weeks post relaxer. ask Aireen she now uses it and enjoys it (or maybe its the biotin - she'll come and tell you)

AOGPB is ok...a milk protein that I find very mild

AOIN is good - almond protein that's nice and if anything this one seems most strong to me among my list.

Millcreek Biotin conditioner - great for cowashing and adding a little protein as it has collagen (and keratin) I use this when I feel I need a protein boost but not by way of a steamed protein.

I use giovanni 50:50 and SAS deeper moisture which have wheat proteins..I use these 1-3 times a week during a dry DC and I don't even really think about the protein in these.

 

[divachyk]

Re: Protein Q&A (learning to use them properly)

faithVA -- http://voices.yahoo.com/the-fine-art-protein-moisture-balancing-for-393904.html?cat=69

 

[mamaore]

divachyk, thanks for starting this thread, I'm looking forward to the responses.

faithVA I did the wet strand assessment. In the shower I pulled on a strand of hair gently. The test says hair that needs protein will stretch and not return back to its original position. It will be stretched out. My hair felt this way. It stretched for a long time and when I tried to guide the hair back to its original length, that strand was just limp. obviously I felt that the hair was not elastic enough. So I used Aphogee 2 step 2 weeks ago. I did not see any breakage - at least not more than I ususally see.

Last wash, I did the test again... meh still the same. So I used AO GBP as a DC on dry hair. After washing out the AOGBP, I did the assessment - Hair seemed more elastic. 2 days later I did a cowash with Organix coconut conditioner and then ponytailed rollerset. The breakage was out of this world. Its been a long time I saw so many short and mid strands breaking off. I initially thought maybe it was from manipulation but for the last 4 days it has continued despite doing M&S with mositurizing products.

Now hair dry hair snaps on touch. Obviously I went too far, it could be the Organix Coconut conditioner. I used this product faithfully for 2 years because I loved the smell and slip and my hair never retained growth. I havent used it since January this year so I think my hair may hate the protein in this product because I have retined at least 2 inch since February despite 4 trim sessions. I dont know what to make of all of it.

 

[faithVA]

mamaore[/USER];16019585]@divachyk, thanks for starting this thread, I'm looking forward to the responses.

@faithVA I did the wet strand assessment. In the shower I pulled on a strand of hair gently. The test says hair that needs protein will stretch and not return back to its original position. It will be stretched out. My hair felt this way. It stretched for a long time and when I tried to guide the hair back to its original length, that strand was just limp. obviously I felt that the hair was not elastic enough. So I used Aphogee 2 step 2 weeks ago. I did not see any breakage - at least not more than I ususally see.

Last wash, I did the test again... meh still the same. So I used AO GBP as a DC on dry hair. After washing out the AOGBP, I did the assessment - Hair seemed more elastic. 2 days later I did a cowash with Organix coconut conditioner and then ponytailed rollerset. The breakage was out of this world. Its been a long time I saw so many short and mid strands breaking off. I initially thought maybe it was from manipulation but for the last 4 days it has continued despite doing M&S with mositurizing products.

Now hair dry hair snaps on touch. Obviously I went too far, it could be the Organix Coconut conditioner. I used this product faithfully for 2 years because I loved the smell and slip and my hair never retained growth. I havent used it since January this year so I think my hair may hate the protein in this product because I have retined at least 2 inch since February despite 4 trim sessions. I dont know what to make of all of it.

Maybe it wasn't the Organix coconut. Perhaps it was too much protein back to back. You did the 2 step 2 weeks ago, then used AOGPB and then Oranix coconut. Maybe that combination is too much. I'm back tracking now though because I really don't know

But thanks for the info on the strand test. Maybe I will only do protein after doing that. As a natural I don't recall my hair's elasticity changing much. But now I can pay more attention.

 

[Nix08]

faithVA - my dd is natural and rarely needs protein the only protein I use on her is SAA it's more than enough.

 

[faithVA]

@faithVA - my dd is natural and rarely needs protein the only protein I use on her is SAA it's more than enough.

Thanks. I think you are right. I think I probably get enough protein from any products I am using. I do have 3 bottles of AO GPB I want to use up I guess I will give a bottle away. And then slowly use them up by following them up with a moisturizing DC. I can use them 1x every other month and be ok. I recently colored my hair though so maybe it will do me good.

 

[faithVA]

Re: Protein Q&A (learning to use them properly)

@faithVA -- http://voices.yahoo.com/the-fine-art-protein-moisture-balancing-for-393904.html?cat=69

Thanks that was helpful. I will check it out tonight. I am pretty sure I know where I am. I will stick with just moisturizing and wait for signs before using protein.

 

[Nix08]

faithVA not to encourage any further expenditure but AORM is marketed to coloured hair.....I don't have coloured hair but I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE this conditioner

 

[faithVA]

@faithVA not to encourage any further expenditure but AORM is marketed to coloured hair.....I don't have coloured hair but I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE this conditioner

Everybody keeps saying that Stop telling me that

Ok, next time The Vitamin Shoppe has a sell or gives me a really great coupon I will purchase a bottle. They don't sell it locally at the one I visit.

 

[Nix08]

mamaore what other products did you use in your rollerset perhaps it was the leave in or setting lotion....

 

[Nix08]

Everybody keeps saying that Stop telling me that

Ok, next time The Vitamin Shoppe has a sell or gives me a really great coupon I will purchase a bottle. They don't sell it locally at the one I visit.

faithVA

 

[divachyk]

@faithVA, my hair never shows the need for protein when doing the wet strand test. My hair usually holds strong (enough protein) or pops (too much protein) but never extends/stretches (need protein). It might not be the wisest thing for me to do since I struggle with protein breakage almost every time I use protein but when I start to see unusual breakage, I will protein treat anyway. The end result is my hair acts funky for about a week and then all breakage stops -- the unusual breakage and post-protein use breakage. I truly feel that if I can get a handle on which proteins my hair likes, it won't be such frightening experience each time I use protein.

 

[faithVA]

divachyk[/USER];16019979]@faithVA, my hair never shows the need for protein when doing the wet strand test. My hair usually holds strong (enough protein) or pops (too much protein) but never extends/stretches (need protein). It might not be the wisest thing for me to do since I struggle with protein breakage almost every time I use protein but when I start to see unusual breakage, I will protein treat anyway. The end result is my hair acts funky for about a week and then all breakage stops -- the unusual breakage and post-protein use breakage. I truly feel that if I can get a handle on which proteins my hair likes, it won't be such frightening experience each time I use protein.

I hope you figure it out because I'm going to copy what you do. I hate all of this experimenting with protein. With all this breakage I may not ever get past SL.

Have you tried any of the more natural proteins like egg, Mayo, Coconut Milk, yogurt? I've only done the yogurt once and I don't recall having a problem. It's just hard to get a small container of yogurt here. And I don't eat yogurt so its a waste.

 

[Nix08]

divachyk how do you use your protein do you steam it in? If you're protein sensitive I probably wouldn't steam it in.

 

[divachyk]

faithVA, nah haven't tried the natural proteins. My first step is to go back to the products that did me bad and review the ingredients listing to see if I can find a theme of what my hair doesn't like. I do know my hair likes hydrolized wheat protein in my DCners. I seem to get the best moisturizing sessions when products contain that.

 

[divachyk]

Nix08, I use it directly as written -- 1 minute, 3 minutes, etc. - while in the shower but I don't steam it in. I think part of my problem in past was using protein prematurely and not using proteins that were right for my hair. Now, I only use it when I see unusual breakage and that's helped a lot. My next step is to use the right proteins.

 

[Nix08]

@divachyk have you tried SAA ...have you gotten breakage with that as well? How about collagen?

 

[faithVA]

@faithVA, nah haven't tried the natural proteins. My first step is to go back to the products that did me bad and review the ingredients listing to see if I can find a theme of what my hair doesn't like. I do know my hair likes hydrolized wheat protein in my DCners. I seem to get the best moisturizing sessions when products contain that.

I haven't paid enough attention to which proteins are in what. This is really a good idea.

 

[gabulldawg]

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread.protein is also something i'm confused about. I use one keratin product around touch up time and that's about it.

 

[baddison]

Glad for this thread, and will be paying attention to all the replies. Protein has been quite hit-or-miss for me because I use Henna so often. I henna monthly, and even though henna itself is NOT a protein....it still has protein-like tendencies. My hair is strong and can become stiff if I don't apply moisture-moisture-moisture to my hair in the weeks following my henna treatment. Then by the time I look around, its the next month again and I my henna is due. To make a long story short, I don't currently use protein in my regimen. Once in a while, when I baggy at night, I may put a small dab of ORS Carrot oil in the hair and on the ends. About two months ago, I sprayed some CHI Keratin Mist in my hair while styling my bun for work. Would you believe even THAT was too much!!!! So for now, I'm just winging it with protein. Its gotta be the mildest, mildest protein available if I'm going to use it, and it not make my hair hard/rough.

One thing that i've learned from being on this board for a number of years: LISTEN TO YOUR HAIR. Hair that's too hard, rough, and stiff... may need some Moisture TLC. Hair that too soft, mushy, won't hold any kinda style...may need some Protein TLC. Its trial and error ladies....which bites!! 'Cause sometimes "trial and error" shows up in the form of excessive shedding and breakage. Anyway...just my 2cents here. Will definitely be paying attention to what others input!!

 

[divachyk]

@divachyk have you tried SAA ...have you gotten breakage with that as well? How about collagen?

Nix08 I haven't kept good record of what ingredients caused breakage but I will go back in my hair journal and determine that. I haven't used SAA individually but I have used it as formulated within products. I didn't get breakage (that I remember-- but that was 2010 when I used it).

 

[Ogoma]

My hair acts funky with too much protein, but I needed to figure it out if I wanted to co-wash daily. I use really light proteins and have used a medium protein (CJ Repair Me) only once this year. I also never steam with protein at all. My hair seems to act up with some products containing wheat and oat protein, but weirdly seems to handle keratin.

Full strength henna was not my friend, but I use a pre-mixed product that has henna with about seven other herbs/powders and I mix some conditioner in there as well. I also don't leave it on for more than 3 hours.

 

[Aireen]

I've figured out how to use protein, my hair loves all types but if I use it when my new growth is thick, my hair will be a tangled mess so I limit my use to around the first 6 weeks of having a fresh relaxer then switch to moisture.

From reading Nix08 statement, I feel as if our approach to protein is similar except that I do have conditioners that have protein lower on the list for balancing purposes. Example, all of Tresemme's products are extremely moisturizing for my hair so I figure whatever protein that happens to be in it will help my hair's structure and will aid in drawing in moisture.

I love MillCreek Botanicals Keratin Conditioner, hydrolyzed keratin is the 2nd ingredient and I purposely bought it because I wanted a protein identical to that of which is found in my hair plus a "strong" treatment. It doesn't leave my hair hard like Aphogee 2-Step, it's a lot cheaper as well. I don't follow up with a moisturizing conditioner but I do use some argon oil on wet hair to seal in moisture (from the water) and that's great for me.

If you're protein sensitive, I would be really cautious of how much you experiment with protein. The tangling I got when I was using protein far into my stretches was terrible, it literally matted as if I had a big dreadlock in the middle of my hair. From my experience, wheat and collagen proteins are very gentle. I'm not too familiar with silk proteins but when I use it in mostly moisture based conditioners it is also gentle.

 

[divachyk]

Aireen, I agree that experimenting is not good for those that are protein sensitive like myself. I plan to write down the protein ingredients that worked for and against my hair and process of eliminate. I will post my findings in this thread to keep it going. faithVA and the other ladies, please post your findings as well if you review your protein ingredients for what works and doesn't.

 

[Aireen]

Aireen, I agree that experimenting is not good for those that are protein sensitive like myself. I plan to write down the protein ingredients that worked for and against my hair and process of eliminate. I will post my findings in this thread to keep it going. faithVA and the other ladies, please post your findings as well if you review your protein ingredients for what works and doesn't.

Well maybe you might like wheat protein since it allows for better moisture retention? Have you tried it?

 

[youwillrise]

thanks for this.

i use hydrolyzed keratin protein (i dilute it with water and spray it on my hair) every wash day. it's definitely made a positive difference for me and my hair. love it.

 

[divachyk]

Well maybe you might like wheat protein since it allows for better moisture retention? Have you tried it?

Aireen, yes, that's the only protein that I absolutely know my hair likes. I only come to know that after trying different DCners and having great success to find each of them had a commonality: hydrolized wheat protein.

 

[divachyk]

Found a great LHCF thread that contains additional info about the various proteins.

Remember, the effectiveness of a protein also depends on the concentration of that protein in a product. When its down on the list, not the first 5 ingredients, it may not make a huge impact on your hair like it would if it was the 2nd or 3rd ingredient. The links to this info are included.

Collagen Protein--known for increasing elasticity in the hair

Silk Protein--known for softening the hair

Wheat Protein--a moisturizing and strengthening protein. known for increasing the hair's ability to maintain & receive moisture also.

Keratin Protein--responsible for keeping the hair strong and pliable. This is the strongest of the(hair product) proteins and is actually the one that hair is made from. This one re-structures hair that has been damaged or broken down by chemicals. It helps to replace the amino acid cysteine which is the main one lost during chemical processing. This is the heavy duty protein. If you see the following as an ingredient

*Vegetable protein --Vegetable protein absorbs more easily into the hair shaft [than animal protein] and does not create build-up, leaves the hair very shiny, radiant, luxuriant, and healthy.

*Animal protein --Animal protein breaks down into fatty acids, which coat the hair and create residual build-up.

Silk Amino Acids/Protein--Natural silk is the strongest, natural fiber known to mankind. Discovered in Japan and has been used for centuries in all kinds of products that require durability. Silk has a tiny molecule that can penetrate the entire hair shaft deeper than all other proteins without adding any weight leaving the hair feeling clean and non-greasy.

Keratin Protein More Indepth:

a) Keratin protein--this will re-structure and strengthen the hair cuticle (the outer layer only & the most important layer) The keratin in some reconstructors should not leave your hair hard like the Aphogee Treatment for damaged hair (which contains hydrolyzed animal protein). This treatment hardens on your hair for a reason and is used with mild heat. A moisturizing conditioner is a must with this in order to soften like Keracare's humecto. Reconstructors that contain keratin and other proteins are supposed to have enough moisture to soften the hair therefore leaving your hair with a nice protein/moisture balance."

b) Hydrolyzed Keratin Protein or Keratin Amino Acids--this means that the Keratin molecules have been broken down and are small enough to go beyond the cuticle and penetrate the hair shaft. It will strengthen all 3 layers of the hair. That is why the term "deep conditioning" technically only refers to this kind of treatment using penetrating proteins.

c) Hydrolyzed Human Hair Keratin--This is an exact match for the keratin your hair has (or has lot due to chemical processing). This is the highest quality and most potent keratin that can be used in hair products.

**List of protein**
Collagen Protein--known for increasing elasticity in the hair

Silk Protein--known for softening the hair

Wheat Protein--a moisturizing and strengthening protein. known for increasing the hair's ability to maintain & receive moisture also.

Keratin Protein--responsible for keeping the hair strong and pliable. This is the strongest of the(hair product) proteins and is actually the one that hair is made from. This one re-structures hair that has been damaged or broken down by chemicals. It helps to replace the amino acid cysteine which is the main one lost during chemical processing. This is the heavy duty protein.

*Vegetable protein --Vegetable protein absorbs more easily into the hair shaft [than animal protein] and does not create build-up, leaves the hair very shiny, radiant, luxuriant, and healthy.

*Animal protein --Animal protein breaks down into fatty acids, which coat the hair and create residual build-up.

Silk Amino Acids/Protein--Natural silk is the strongest, natural fiber known to mankind. Discovered in Japan and has been used for centuries in all kinds of products that require durability. Silk has a tiny molecule that can penetrate the entire hair shaft deeper than all other proteins without adding any weight leaving the hair feeling clean and non-greasy

**Keratin protein More Indepth:***

*a) Keratin protein--this will re-structure and strengthen the hair cuticle (the outer layer only & the most important layer) The keratin in some reconstructors should not leave your hair hard like the Aphogee Treatment for damaged hair (which contains hydrolyzed animal protein). This treatment hardens on your hair for a reason and is used with mild heat. A moisturizing conditioner is a must with this in order to soften like Keracare's humecto.
Reconstructors that contain keratin and other proteins are supposed to have enough moisture to soften the hair therefore leaving your hair with a nice protein/moisture balance."

*b) Hydrolyzed Keratin Protein or Keratin Amino Acids--this means that the Keratin molecules have been broken down and are small enough to go beyond the cuticle and penetrate the hair shaft. It will strengthen all 3 layers of the hair. That is why the term "deep conditioning" technically only refers to this kind of treatment using penetrating proteins.

*c) Hydrolyzed Human Hair Keratin--This is an exact match for the keratin your hair has (or has lot due to chemical processing). This is the highest quality and most potent keratin that can be used in hair products.

***ceramides***
Ceramides are essential to the cohesion of the cuticle and maintenance of its protective effect for the hair shaft. Ceramides are known to protect and/or repair the hair fibers from or after attack by blow driers, flatirons, and everyday wear and tear. In particular, ceramides limit the loss of protein, which gives the hair more strength and liveliness.
Ceramides will make sure that you hair will stay strong because it causes less protien loss. Common items that contain ceramides is wheat germ oil, Hemp Seed Oil, and walnut oil.
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=92906


http://www.tressbuzz.com/6/post/2011/2/regimen-building-product-talk2.html

Hidden Proteins
One of the most frequent questions I get from women is "what are hidden proteins?" We all know protein overload can lead to brittle, hard, breaking hair. If you are protein sensitive you KNOW it with a capital "K". If you are doing everything right but are still experiencing hard, brittle hair you will want to check your shampoos, conditioners, leave-ins and stylers for hidden proteins, as excess use can lead to overload -something that is hard to recover from. Many of the proteins in products will actually say protein, however here is a list you may not know about: keratin
collagen
gelatin
placenta
aloe vera
lanolin protein
milk lactase
lactis
soy
soy milk
coconut solids/cream/milk
egg solids
ovum
nut solids/milks
grain solids (buckwheat, corn, amaranth, rice, etc....)
corn silk (extract)
hydrolized silk
silk amino acid
silk extract
silk powder
silk solids
wheat germ
wheat
yogurt solids
mayonnaise
whey
algae
kelp
seaweed

Regarding the above list, please note that oils derived from these items (nut oils, grain oils, etc.) have no (or negligable) protein as proteins do not survive the rigorous oil pressing process. Also note that some people are so protein sensitive that protein building blocks -aminos, peptides, etc. -will harden their hair. So keep an eye on your products' ingredient lists and get serious about monitoring your protein/ moisture balance!

Hydrolyzed (broken down to amino acids?) proteins penetrate the hair shaft to a higher degree than intact proteins. The smaller the better. I am finding not all proteins are equal or have the same effect. Wheat germ and amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) leave my hair soft while keratin (what our hair and epidermis are composed primarily of) in any form leaves my hair hard.


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