Are Type 4 Naturals Ignored?

[charmtreese]

How do you use this? Do you saturate your hair with it so that all of your hair hangs heavy? Or just massage into your scalp?

I've never used a premixxed clay on my hair but I know those bottles are not very big. I checked out an old Naptural85 vid and saw that she was only applying the product to her scalp.

I use to make my own clay washes but I love the convenience of terressentials. I travel for work a lot and this makes it really easy to take with me. The bottle is 16 oz and I wash in 4 sections, slathering it on my scalp and hair. I wash my hair biweekly so, one bottle last about 1.5 months.

 

[charmtreese]

For 4b, diameter doesn't really apply because the hair often does not form circles and coils to measure a line across. A strand can be like a squiggly line, a zig-zag line, a line with a scroll at the end, and other types of lines. It shrinks up, but there are no uniform curls all over to measure. Sometimes there are straight pieces. All of this can be happening on one head of hair.

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YAAASSSSSSSSS, All of this! This is what I’ve been trying to explain...thanks for the pics!

 

[Alma Petra]

For 4b, diameter doesn't really apply because the hair often does not form circles and coils to measure a line across. A strand can be like a squiggly line, a zig-zag line, a line with a scroll at the end, and other types of lines. It shrinks up, but there are no uniform curls all over to measure. Sometimes there are straight pieces. All of this can be happening on one head of hair.

AAAAAAAAAP/2Q==

AAAAAAAAAP/2Q==

Since this is an alternative classification, it's meant to represent the other point of view that almost all types of curly hair are able to achieve definition and clumpage with the use of the appropriate techniques and products, and maybe the achievement of adequate levels of moisture? As you can see from the different photos and videos posted in the thread, there are actually 4b curlies that have achieved beautifully defined curls e.g. our own @AbsyBlvd (Are Type 4 Naturals Ignored?)

So for the purposes of making this alternative classification comprehensive we can add a 4p category which means "pending definition"

This will leave us with:

• 4p pending definition: exact diameter unknown and the class will be determined once definition has been achieved
• 4c can be anything between 0-3 mm in diameter be it a curl, a coil or a zigzag.
• 4b beween 4 mm to 6 mm.
• 4a between 7 and 10 mm.
• 3 range: anything more than 10 mm
• 2 range: waves, no curls
• 1 straight hair

Let's also not forget that many people have more than one curl type in their hair. This is normal.

My individual strands form all of the shapes that you have shown in the photos in your post. My curl pattern is weak like that. It is very unlikely for one of my strands to form a perfect coil and it takes the hell a lot of coaxing to make my hair curl and clump. The natural state of my hair is probably simply frizz. Or at least that's the way it is with the modern ways of hair washing ie the raking of shampoo and conditioner. Nowadays I water wash only (my twa, not the rest of my hair) and I don't rake the water. I soak and scrunch. This leaves my hair clean and defined fresh out of the shower.

I never had curly hair growing up even though I was natural but the potential was always there. The way I used to wash, comb and style my hair meant that my hair never got the chance to curl, and as I said my hair needs a lot of coaxing to curl up anyway.

This photo shows some slept-in frizzy messy curls (yet still curls) but notice the encircled area. That's what my hair normally looks like. No clear curl pattern.



Just as you described strands "can be like a squiggly line, a zig-zag line, a line with a scroll at the end, and other types of lines. It shrinks up, but there are no uniform curls all over to measure"

 

[Ipanema]

Okay, enjoy your new classification system...

 

[GGsKin]

Since this is an alternative classification, it's meant to represent the other point of view that almost all types of curly hair are able to achieve definition and clumpage with the use of the appropriate techniques and products, and maybe the achievement of adequate levels of moisture? As you can see from the different photos and videos posted in the thread, there are actually 4b curlies that have achieved beautifully defined curls e.g. our own @AbsyBlvd (Are Type 4 Naturals Ignored?)

So for the purposes of making this alternative classification comprehensive we can add a 4p category which means "pending definition"

This will leave us with:

• 4p pending definition: exact diameter unknown and the class will be determined once definition has been achieved
• 4c can be anything between 0-3 mm in diameter be it a curl, a coil or a zigzag.
• 4b beween 4 mm to 6 mm.
• 4a between 7 and 10 mm.
• 3 range: anything more than 10 mm
• 2 range: waves, no curls
• 1 straight hair

Let's also not forget that many people have more than one curl type in their hair. This is normal.

My individual strands form all of the shapes that you have shown in the photos in your post. My curl pattern is weak like that. It is very unlikely for one of my strands to form a perfect coil and it takes the hell a lot of coaxing to make my hair curl and clump. The natural state of my hair is probably simply frizz. Or at least that's the way it is with the modern ways of hair washing ie the raking of shampoo and conditioner. Nowadays I water wash only (my twa, not the rest of my hair) and I don't rake the water. I soak and scrunch. This leaves my hair clean and defined fresh out of the shower.

I never had curly hair growing up even though I was natural but the potential was always there. The way I used to wash, comb and style my hair meant that my hair never got the chance to curl, and as I said my hair needs a lot of coaxing to curl up anyway.

This photo shows some slept-in frizzy messy curls (yet still curls) but notice the encircled area. That's what my hair normally looks like. No clear curl pattern.

View attachment 426706

Just as you described strands "can be like a squiggly line, a zig-zag line, a line with a scroll at the end, and other types of lines. It shrinks up, but there are no uniform curls all over to measure"

I don't subscribe to the whole reclassification system- it's just too tiring for me, however I believe I understand what you are saying.

 

[Alma Petra]

I don't subscribe to the whole reclassification system- it's just too tiring for me, however I believe I understand what you are saying.

I get you perfectly sis. I know the classification offers no clear definitions. In fact had you not been replying to that question by @charmtreese I wouldn't have known where exactly to place you on the scale I still don't know what type 4 I am.
Also this curl classification thing unfortunately comes with an emotionally charged background. I just somehow find it interesting to have.

 

[charmtreese]

Since this is an alternative classification, it's meant to represent the other point of view that almost all types of curly hair are able to achieve definition and clumpage with the use of the appropriate techniques and products, and maybe the achievement of adequate levels of moisture? As you can see from the different photos and videos posted in the thread, there are actually 4b curlies that have achieved beautifully defined curls e.g. our own @AbsyBlvd (Are Type 4 Naturals Ignored?)

So for the purposes of making this alternative classification comprehensive we can add a 4p category which means "pending definition"

This will leave us with:

• 4p pending definition: exact diameter unknown and the class will be determined once definition has been achieved
• 4c can be anything between 0-3 mm in diameter be it a curl, a coil or a zigzag.
• 4b beween 4 mm to 6 mm.
• 4a between 7 and 10 mm.
• 3 range: anything more than 10 mm
• 2 range: waves, no curls
• 1 straight hair

Let's also not forget that many people have more than one curl type in their hair. This is normal.

My individual strands form all of the shapes that you have shown in the photos in your post. My curl pattern is weak like that. It is very unlikely for one of my strands to form a perfect coil and it takes the hell a lot of coaxing to make my hair curl and clump. The natural state of my hair is probably simply frizz. Or at least that's the way it is with the modern ways of hair washing ie the raking of shampoo and conditioner. Nowadays I water wash only (my twa, not the rest of my hair) and I don't rake the water. I soak and scrunch. This leaves my hair clean and defined fresh out of the shower.

I never had curly hair growing up even though I was natural but the potential was always there. The way I used to wash, comb and style my hair meant that my hair never got the chance to curl, and as I said my hair needs a lot of coaxing to curl up anyway.

This photo shows some slept-in frizzy messy curls (yet still curls) but notice the encircled area. That's what my hair normally looks like. No clear curl pattern.

View attachment 426706

Just as you described strands "can be like a squiggly line, a zig-zag line, a line with a scroll at the end, and other types of lines. It shrinks up, but there are no uniform curls all over to measure"

Personally, I don’t classify predominantly 4b hair as curly. It’s more tight waves, with curved and sharp bends rather then curls. I don’t subscribe to the idea that all naturals have a curl pattern, textured hair doesn’t just mean curly hair. Just like there is a spectrum for loosely curled to tightly curled (coily) hair, there is a spectrum for wavy hair...loose waves to tight waves (kinky). For example, relaxers will loosen your texture. If you have 4a hair and texlax it you will probably see a looser curl pattern revealed. However, when I was texlaxing, the relaxer didn’t release a curl pattern in my hair, it did make my hair strands have more of a wavy texture. Even the 4b wng’s in this thread look more wavy then curly.

 

[charmtreese]

I get you perfectly sis. I know the classification offers no clear definitions. In fact had you not been replying to that question by @charmtreese I wouldn't have known where exactly to place you on the scale I still don't know what type 4 I am.
Also this curl classification thing unfortunately comes with an emotionally charged background. I just somehow find it interesting to have.

Your hair looks like a 3b/3c....based on the bang pic.

 

[kxlot79]

Aw thanks. I try.
Honestly, my experience has been that the more often you do WnGs the easier and faster they are. Even dry time. Now my caveat is that the “easier and faster” comes from being able to gradually decrease products and product types to achieve similar results. For instance, when I first started WnGs, I was washing and froing. Just a cloud of hair that would quickly go vertical as it dried. Now I couldn’t get my hair to stand up without serious manipulation (picking and pulling or combing). Before, my hair laughed at mousse/foam products. Now, I can get a pretty and respectable WnG that will last 1-2 days with a few pumps of mousse or foam. So the products being so light also help with dry time.

If getting your WnGs to last longer makes them more convenient, I say do what works for you. But I’d caution that less than ideal results with any product/method has potential for some kind of at least minor damage. Have you figured out why the gel makes your hair feel dry? Is it an ingredient? Maybe protein? Or technique, like too much? Or perhaps more layering of another product or a more moisturizing product?

Great post!

Lol. I was just watching Dickie's latest YT video. He talked about doing daily wng's. I was like ?!?? He based the logic on preventing dryness. The comments were interesting.

I'm currently getting the best wash and go's of life. SSKs are at a minimum. My hair is not tangling. Definition lasts 7+ days. I love the look and low maintenance. My only issue: The awesome-performing gel makes my hair feel dry. So I'm trying to solve that issue.

 

[kxlot79]

So how many of us have seen/heard the scientific research that Type 4 Hair is inherently more fragile than the rest? (That the bends/curls/coils often occur in a flat elliptical shape like a piece of scissored ribbon, and therefore the strand is thinner and weaker at every bend (and where a 12” piece of hair can have as many as 20+ bends/curls/coils that’s a LOT of opportunities for breakage).
I think that a lot of the myths and experiences with WnGs or daily restyling are based on this research and collections of anecdotal evidence that would seem to bear this theory out.
I’m not gonna take a hard line that this isn’t true for anyone. But I really don’t believe this is true for most Type 4s.
What I personally see is: a Type 4 spending 3+ hours per week cleansing/conditioning/styling her hair one day a week. What’s the difference between that and another Type 4 spending 1 hr cleansing/conditioning/styling her hair 3x per week? How is one less manipulation than the other, just because she does it once. The actual manipulation, if we’re talking touching/pulling time is the same... isn’t it?
I mean, from just the videos in this thread we can see WnG means something different to everyone. A person trying to get their WnG to last 7 days has a TOTALLY different methodology from someone planning to redo in a day or 2. That being said, I wouldn’t equate the suggestion to redo a WnG multiple times a week to the kind of WnG that takes 3+ products and the equivalent of a Rain Dance lol!

 

[kxlot79]

Have you ever seen Abena of Embrace Natural Beauty on Youtube? Just my two cents but from just the pics, idk that your hair is different textures/curl patterns. Different porosities can exist on the same head, and sometimes just switching around the order or ratio of products you’re already using for different sections can make a huge difference. The other thing to consider is density differences.
Your hair in the back, is it less dense than the hair in the front? Sometimes, an area of hair that is even slightly less dense will appear different from other areas simply because the same amount of product has coated that section of hair more thoroughly, therefore appearing more defined.
I can’t see or feel your hair, but certainly that’s some food for thought.

I think gaps like this is why no typing system will ever be complete enough. Porosity, density, length, and even condition can all change the appearance of hair. But if all we see is curl pattern, that’s the only thing we’re addressing in our quest to optimize our results.
For myself, there were times where I didn’t think I had a curl pattern (because my hair was just SO chronically dry I had normalized that level of dryness); times where my hair wouldn’t hang loose and dry no matter what I did; and times where every wash day I seemed to have golf ball sized piles of shed hair... you couldn’t tell me the hair I have now was hiding in the hair I had 10 or 15 years ago. And that doesn’t even take into account how nutrition and fitness can have an impact on hair...

View attachment 426624 Ends of twist....it’s hard to see...but pretty much twisted to the end.
View attachment 426626 Irregular wavy hair in the back. Which also has less shrinkage...so I fear having a mullet wng. The majority of my hair is like the hair that’s in my hands. I can’t post the pic of that hair, having upload difficulties....but that hair shrinks a lot more...plus has no pattern, just zigzags.

 

[MizzBFly]

Have you ever seen Abena of Embrace Natural Beauty on Youtube? Just my two cents but from just the pics, idk that your hair is different textures/curl patterns. Different porosities can exist on the same head, and sometimes just switching around the order or ratio of products you’re already using for different sections can make a huge difference. The other thing to consider is density differences.
Your hair in the back, is it less dense than the hair in the front? Sometimes, an area of hair that is even slightly less dense will appear different from other areas simply because the same amount of product has coated that section of hair more thoroughly, therefore appearing more defined.
I can’t see or feel your hair, but certainly that’s some food for thought.

I think gaps like this is why no typing system will ever be complete enough. Porosity, density, length, and even condition can all change the appearance of hair. But if all we see is curl pattern, that’s the only thing we’re addressing in our quest to optimize our results.
For myself, there were times where I didn’t think I had a curl pattern (because my hair was just SO chronically dry I had normalized that level of dryness); times where my hair wouldn’t hang loose and dry no matter what I did; and times where every wash day I seemed to have golf ball sized piles of shed hair... you couldn’t tell me the hair I have now was hiding in the hair I had 10 or 15 years ago. And that doesn’t even take into account how nutrition and fitness can have an impact on hair...

All of this

 

[charmtreese]

Have you ever seen Abena of Embrace Natural Beauty on Youtube? Just my two cents but from just the pics, idk that your hair is different textures/curl patterns. Different porosities can exist on the same head, and sometimes just switching around the order or ratio of products you’re already using for different sections can make a huge difference. The other thing to consider is density differences.
Your hair in the back, is it less dense than the hair in the front? Sometimes, an area of hair that is even slightly less dense will appear different from other areas simply because the same amount of product has coated that section of hair more thoroughly, therefore appearing more defined.
I can’t see or feel your hair, but certainly that’s some food for thought.

I think gaps like this is why no typing system will ever be complete enough. Porosity, density, length, and even condition can all change the appearance of hair. But if all we see is curl pattern, that’s the only thing we’re addressing in our quest to optimize our results.
For myself, there were times where I didn’t think I had a curl pattern (because my hair was just SO chronically dry I had normalized that level of dryness); times where my hair wouldn’t hang loose and dry no matter what I did; and times where every wash day I seemed to have golf ball sized piles of shed hair... you couldn’t tell me the hair I have now was hiding in the hair I had 10 or 15 years ago. And that doesn’t even take into account how nutrition and fitness can have an impact on hair...

It's a different pattern, I refer to it as a looser 4b then the rest. My dads hair is the same way. My hair is normal to high porosity pretty much all over, and my density is medium. I have fine strands, and I take all of this into account in my regimen. The hair at the top looks thicker only because the texture is way tighter. When I twist my hair you can easily tell that the density is pretty much the same all over.

I'm okay if I can't define my 4b hair. I honestly do not believe that all textured hair can be defined. For styling options it would be cool if I could achieve a wng...but it's okay if I never do.

My goal and what has served me well in my hair growth journey (especially my natural hair journey) is listening to my hair and doing the things that work with my hair not against it. When I attempt a wng this summer if my hair revolts and doesn't become a halo of defined kinky waves, then I'll just move on...no love lost!

 

[charmtreese]

And to answer the original post....

All hair types do not need to showcase there versatility and style the same way. I think that for type 4b hair, twist and twist outs are popular because this style does a great job at preserving the hairs natural aesthetics with little to no damage. My hair is naturally wavy kinky, not curly...so I'm going to wear more styles that resemble my natural texture, hence twist and twist-outs. Type 4a and 3's wear a lot of wng's because that style naturally showcase their curly texture.

If a 4b can define their texture to rock a wng with little to no damage, then that's awesome. But not all 4b hair is going to create a define wng. Also, just because your hair does not have definition, this does not mean that your hair is unhealthy or that something else is wrong...it could just mean that your hair does not have definition.

 

[Alma Petra]

It's a different pattern, I refer to it as a looser 4b then the rest. My dads hair is the same way. My hair is normal to high porosity pretty much all over, and my density is medium. I have fine strands, and I take all of this into account in my regimen. The hair at the top looks thicker only because the texture is way tighter. When I twist my hair you can easily tell that the density is pretty much the same all over.

I'm okay if I can't define my 4b hair. I honestly do not believe that all textured hair can be defined. For styling options it would be cool if I could achieve a wng...but it's okay if I never do.

My goal and what has served me well in my hair growth journey (especially my natural hair journey) is listening to my hair and doing the things that work with my hair not against it. When I attempt a wng this summer if my hair revolts and doesn't become a halo of defined kinky waves, then I'll just move on...no love lost!

So you'll only try it once? But that's unfair to the WNG! Lol

 

[charmtreese]

So you'll only try it once? But that's unfair to the WNG! Lol

LOL!!!!

If I'm trying it on vacation, I may give it more than one try...if it's not a complete fail the first time. But as for an everyday style...wng's wouldn't work. I play a full contact sport that requires a helmet...if my helmet can't fit over a 2 day old twist out, I'm sure it's not going to fit over a wng.

 

[Alma Petra]

Personally, I don’t classify predominantly 4b hair as curly. It’s more tight waves, with curved and sharp bends rather then curls. I don’t subscribe to the idea that all naturals have a curl pattern, textured hair doesn’t just mean curly hair. Just like there is a spectrum for loosely curled to tightly curled (coily) hair, there is a spectrum for wavy hair...loose waves to tight waves (kinky). For example, relaxers will loosen your texture. If you have 4a hair and texlax it you will probably see a looser curl pattern revealed. However, when I was texlaxing, the relaxer didn’t release a curl pattern in my hair, it did make my hair strands have more of a wavy texture. Even the 4b wng’s in this thread look more wavy then curly.

I know it's impossible to prove that a certain head of hair has the potential to become defined or not. At the same time I don't think that there is a way to know that this certain head of hair will never achieve definition. So it's sort of an unanswerable question.
And of course a defined wng might not even be somebody's preferred look or style. There is beauty is both defined and undefined afro-textured hair. And as you said if somebody wants curls or waves, you can always do a twist out a braid out or a bantu knot out with the advantage of being able to achieve even less frizz than with the wng and with the diameter of curl that you prefer.

 

[Alma Petra]

Your hair looks like a 3b/3c....based on the bang pic.

My curls were over-clumped in that pic even though the diameter was still small. I've been working on convincing my hair to form smaller clumps..














I am sure these cannot be mistaken for type 3 curls

ETA: had to reduce the size of the images

 

[GGsKin]

@Alma Petra if I had to put a number/ letter combo on your 'twa', I would say silky 3c/4a.

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

And to answer the original post....

All hair types do not need to showcase there versatility and style the same way. I think that for type 4b hair, twist and twist outs are popular because this style does a great job at preserving the hairs natural aesthetics with little to no damage. My hair is naturally wavy kinky, not curly...so I'm going to wear more styles that resemble my natural texture, hence twist and twist-outs. Type 4a and 3's wear a lot of wng's because that style naturally showcase their curly texture.

If a 4b can define their texture to rock a wng with little to no damage, then that's awesome. But not all 4b hair is going to create a define wng. Also, just because your hair does not have definition, this does not mean that your hair is unhealthy or that something else is wrong...it could just mean that your hair does not have definition.

The first part of your post really helped me! Makes so much sense. Thanks!

 

[MizzBFly]

It's a different pattern, I refer to it as a looser 4b then the rest. My dads hair is the same way. My hair is normal to high porosity pretty much all over, and my density is medium. I have fine strands, and I take all of this into account in my regimen. The hair at the top looks thicker only because the texture is way tighter. When I twist my hair you can easily tell that the density is pretty much the same all over.

I'm okay if I can't define my 4b hair. I honestly do not believe that all textured hair can be defined. For styling options it would be cool if I could achieve a wng...but it's okay if I never do.

My goal and what has served me well in my hair growth journey (especially my natural hair journey) is listening to my hair and doing the things that work with my hair not against it. When I attempt a wng this summer if my hair revolts and doesn't become a halo of defined kinky waves, then I'll just move on...no love lost!

This can’t be discounted, my hair waves more than curls.

 

[Alma Petra]

@Alma Petra if I had to put a number/ letter combo on your 'twa', I would say silky 3c/4a.

I was thinking maybe 4a/4b? I think that 3c hair is the diameter of something like Natalie Emmanuel's curls for example.
Lol that's why I think that if we want to continue to enjoy using curl classification we should come up with some arbitrary cutoff points so that everybody can measure their curls and immediately find out where in the scale they stand and be accurate when exchanging hair info with other people.

But I'm absolutely certain that my hair is not silky. It actually feels rough to the touch and the strands feel bumpy when you slide your fingers on them. But I have to admit that me too I've been wondering about the newly found shine that my hair acquires when it curls. It is very surprising. It's not there when my hair is in its natural state. I just think that achieving higher levels of moisture in addition to assuming the curly shape makes hair more shiny than usual. My hair has much more shine when curly than when stretched.
Who else has experienced this?

 

[caribeandiva]

You are saying we but you are having a personal struggle with wearing your hair the way you want. You don't need more representation. You don't need anyone to OK your hair. If it' a work requirement understood. Outside of that you have to find the strength in you to wear your hair the way you like.

I' sure where I live and work it is more acceptable to wear a wng vs the flat twist styles I wear. But I'm not trying to kill myself figuring out a wng. And I found if I'm cool with other people don' have much to say.

Find your inner boldness. It's in there.

I second that! Amen to this whole post! Do you boo. You don’t need anyone’s permission to do so.

 

[Alma Petra]

Aw thanks. I try.
Honestly, my experience has been that the more often you do WnGs the easier and faster they are. Even dry time. Now my caveat is that the “easier and faster” comes from being able to gradually decrease products and product types to achieve similar results. For instance, when I first started WnGs, I was washing and froing. Just a cloud of hair that would quickly go vertical as it dried. Now I couldn’t get my hair to stand up without serious manipulation (picking and pulling or combing). Before, my hair laughed at mousse/foam products. Now, I can get a pretty and respectable WnG that will last 1-2 days with a few pumps of mousse or foam. So the products being so light also help with dry time.

If getting your WnGs to last longer makes them more convenient, I say do what works for you. But I’d caution that less than ideal results with any product/method has potential for some kind of at least minor damage. Have you figured out why the gel makes your hair feel dry? Is it an ingredient? Maybe protein? Or technique, like too much? Or perhaps more layering of another product or a more moisturizing product?

You've shared a lot of wisdom in your posts and I found myself agreeing with almost everything you've said. I suspect that we've gone through similar stages in deciphering our wngs. I think that people working on their wng can learn a lot from your tips.

 

[GGsKin]

I was thinking maybe 4a/4b? I think that 3c hair is the diameter of something like Natalie Emmanuel's curls for example.
Lol that's why I think that if we want to continue to enjoy using curl classification we should come up with some arbitrary cutoff points so that everybody can measure their curls and immediately find out where in the scale they stand and be accurate when exchanging hair info with other people.

But I'm absolutely certain that my hair is not silky. It actually feels rough to the touch and the strands feel bumpy when you slide your fingers on them. But I have to admit that me too I've been wondering about the newly found shine that my hair acquires when it curls. It is very surprising. It's not there when my hair is in its natural state. I just think that achieving higher levels of moisture in addition to assuming the curly shape makes hair more shiny than usual. My hair has much more shine when curly than when stretched.
Who else has experienced this?

I'm not familiar with Natalie Emmanuel. I am basing my judgement on how your hair looks with gel/ product added. With gel, your hair reflects light very well. There are certain parts of my hair (nape) that look shiny when I add gel, and there is the majority that will instead have a sheen, or reflect very little light at all- in effect look dull with gel. I don't see this with your hair.

Due to the way I apply my products, I believe that many of my coils get stretched out, appearing like waves. If I shingle or twirl my strands, some of them will created spiral coils that are smaller than yours.

The system being used here is outdated and unhelpful for the most part.

In another thread @Sharpened previously posted link to an excellent old thread from BHM that broke down the LOIS system with various hair pics. Although it is more in depth at addressing the characteristics of different hair types, I think it helps people to identify how their hair behaves all round vs just how it looks in one particular instance. Especially when the manipulation factor, products, and technique can also affect the way your hair looks in any given style.

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

My curls were over-clumped in that pic even though the diameter was still small. I've been working on convincing my hair to form smaller clumps..


View attachment 426828



View attachment 426830



View attachment 426832



I am sure these cannot be mistaken for type 3 curls

ETA: had to reduce the size of the images

They look Type 3 to me.

Are you saying that normally your coils have a smaller diameter than that when defined, and that they usually lack shine?

Exactly how are you getting the shine?

 

[GGsKin]

My hair has much more shine when curly than when stretched.
Who else has experienced this?

The majority of my hair is not silky and so I get sheen and not shine. Stretching does nothing for my sheen/shine factor unless it is with heat and bone straight.

 

[Cheleigh]

And to answer the original post....

All hair types do not need to showcase there versatility and style the same way. I think that for type 4b hair, twist and twist outs are popular because this style does a great job at preserving the hairs natural aesthetics with little to no damage. My hair is naturally wavy kinky, not curly...so I'm going to wear more styles that resemble my natural texture, hence twist and twist-outs. Type 4a and 3's wear a lot of wng's because that style naturally showcase their curly texture.

If a 4b can define their texture to rock a wng with little to no damage, then that's awesome. But not all 4b hair is going to create a define wng. Also, just because your hair does not have definition, this does not mean that your hair is unhealthy or that something else is wrong...it could just mean that your hair does not have definition.

ITA. A WnG (which I wear my hair in 95% of the time) is not the gold standard for natural type 4 hair (and I'm only referring to the curl diameter, not texture, density, porosity, etc.). My 4b/c very dense kinky-haired daughter will likely never have a WnG on her natural hair that looks like mine with my low-density, kinky 4a hair. But she will be able to do beautiful twists and twist-outs that honestly don't look very good on my hair. And if her hair were less dense, I would style amazing pony puffs more often. Honestly I don't find the curl pattern to be a challenge with her hair at all--for me it's the density (her hair is just so thick that I need to be more creative with her style repertoire because I'm used to my lower-density hair).

@Alma Petra, based on your curl diameter alone (which is really all the type system originally focused on), you're a type 3 (3C maybe, but that wasn't in his original hair typing system). Type 4 has a smaller diameter curl than you have (regardless of whether the texture is silky or kinky). Unless you finger-curled those curls (if I take larger sections of my hair and twist them around my finger, I can form curls that size too. But it's not my actual curl size, and not the curl pattern of my strands, which is still a 4a.

 

[Alma Petra]

I'm not familiar with Natalie Emmanuel. I am basing my judgement on how your hair looks with gel/ product added. With gel, your hair reflects light very well. There are certain parts of my hair (nape) that look shiny when I add gel, and there is the majority that will instead have a sheen, or reflect very little light at all- in effect look dull with gel. I don't see this with your hair.

Due to the way I apply my products, I believe that many of my coils get stretched out, appearing like waves. If I shingle or twirl my strands, some of them will created spiral coils that are smaller than yours.

The system being used here is outdated and unhelpful for the most part.

In another thread @Sharpened previously posted link to an excellent old thread from BHM that broke down the LOIS system with various hair pics. Although it is more in depth at addressing the characteristics of different hair types, I think it helps people to identify how their hair behaves all round vs just how it looks. Especially when the manipulation factor, products, and technique can also affect the way your hair looks in any given style.

She is this curly actress. Though I got the spelling wrong.



As I said there is unfortunately no agreement as to where each class starts and ends. Online you can sometimes find the same photo used as an example of 2 different curl patterns.

I remembee reading that thread on BHM but the photos didn't help clarify the concept to me and I'm sure that different hair strands were presented to me I would not be able to tell which was thready, which cottony or spongy or silky etc. Yet I am aware that if this can be discovered, it can help alot specially if it reflects on how the hair should be treated.

BTW I thought that your coils got stretched because of the henna. But if it's due to the way you apply your products then we'd love to learn about it. I prefer my curls a bit stretched out over tightly coiled.

 

[Alma Petra]

They look Type 3 to me.

Are you saying that normally your coils have a smaller diameter than that when defined, and that they usually lack shine?

Exactly how are you getting the shine?

They look type 3 as in they look big in diameter? Or based on another characteristic?

Normally my hair does not form coils, or at least not defined coils. I have to work on it a lot to make it coil up and to reduce the frizz. Since big chopping and starting experimentation (a year ago) I usually get crappy twa days and very occasional good hair days which I am typically unable to reproduce (which was totally frustrating). Only recently (one month) have I been able to get them more frequently. I'm still not very sure what exactly makes my hair curl up perfectly (definition, moisture, shine) on these occasions but I'm quickly learning.

Now I'm certain that all it takes to get my hair to its original condition is shampooing and detangling (combing) then trying to style. I should probably do this, take a photo and show you.