Texture vs. Coil Pattern

[cocoberry10]

Okay ladies! I didn't find anything that really addressed this when I searched.

I know all about 3a, 3b, 3c, 4a, 4b, 4c, 4zlol.

Anyway, I am still transitioning and haven't done a BC (and am trying to hold off until June or July)!

My question is: Do you think that texture plays more into what you can/cannot do with your hair than simply coil pattern?

Meaning, do you think that if you had the pattern of 3a/b/c, but a very coarse, rough texture, that you would be more limited than someone with 4a/b/c/d/z that had very soft/silky texture but very tightly coiled strands?

I'm really trying to learn my natural hair, and I'm starting to wonder if texture is more determinative of a hair's styling options than simply the pattern.

I am just curious and hope someone with knowledge can share! I hope this doesn't offend anyone, b/c I know on this board that we have all learned how to do much with the beautiful diverse hair we were given!

I'm going to search for some photos to show what I mean!

 

[AfroKink]

How DOES hair texture play into styling? When I look through albums for ideas on styles I always look at curl pattern. I never thought to notice the texture.

Lys

 

[AfroKink]

double post

 

[cmw45]

I think you are onto something. My hair is a 4a and despite the fact that I have pretty well defined coils...my hair (the individual strands) are thick and coarse. I have found some styling limitations. Despite all the advice that I have received, tips and helpful hints, I can NOT do the slick back puff. My hair laughs...hard...at me whenever I attempt it. I have seen everybody and their mothers, cousins, brothers, friends, and long haired dogs do it...and I can't.

 

[kiesha8185]

That's a good question.

I think that texture does play a factor in the daily styling of your hair. Before LHCF, I was 3c/4a/4b WHATEVER with coarse rough strands. It was dull and didn't really have much shine at all. Now, I'm still 3c/4a/4b WHATEVER, but my texture is more smooth, so the same styles I used to do before actually look a little different.

From my own experience, my curl/coil pattern won't really change. My texture did change though....the healthier my hair became, smoother my strands became. So yea, texture did give a little more leeway on what can do with my hair now, but I also think the condition and health of my hair played into that, too.

 

[Mook's hair]

This is interesting, I'm also transitioning and I think the texture/hair type issue is what keeps making me think about whether I want to grow it out all the way or texlax. I'm still on track with growing it out.

 

[cocoberry10]

How DOES hair texture play into styling? When I look through albums for ideas on styles I always look at curl pattern. I never thought to notice the texture.

Lys

I'm going to try to use pictures to illustrate (see below). Basically what I mean is, a person could have really tightly woven hair, that's actually silky. So they would classify as 4a/b, but their hair is very silky and can easily straighten/blowdry/flatiron/flat-twist/twistout, etc.

On the other hand, some people have loosely woven hair and identify as 3a/b/c, but their hair is kinda rough/course, and they cannot blowdry/braidout/twistout/flatiron as easily, even though their hair appears "looser"

Example 1: This hair looks like it's tightly woven, but if she were to blowdry, it could actually be very silky!

Example 2: Liya Kebede's hair appears "kinky" when it's straight (I would have guessed she was a 4a. However, when it's naturally curly, you can see that her hair is actually loosely curled. It may be coarse. (Remember, this is an example, since I don't know these women personally)

Example 3: Emanuela De Paula appears to have very silky hair when straight, however, when it's curly, it appears more kinky.

 

[cocoberry10]

This is interesting, I'm also transitioning and I think the texture/hair type issue is what keeps making me think about whether I want to grow it out all the way or texlax. I'm still on track with growing it out.

I agree with what you are saying (OT: This is a great book, I own it)!

 

[glamazon386]

I'm going to try to use pictures to illustrate (see below). Basically what I mean is, a person could have really tightly woven hair, that's actually silky. So they would classify as 4a/b, but their hair is very silky and can easily straighten/blowdry/flatiron/flat-twist/twistout, etc.

I get what you're saying cocoberry. This is how my hair is. The first time I got it straightened my hairdresser was surprised it blew straight so easy. He said he expected some hard work when he first looked at it. The only thing I hate about it is that it gets fuzzy fast when it's in a natural style.

ETA: Looking at the pictures you posted I think the biggest difference between the two might be that one has coarse hair (Liya - Remember we talked about how coarse hair is thick like a strand of thread? That's what her hair looks like to me from the pictures.) and the other doesn't. Emanuela's hair looks more fine (like strandwise) but she has a lot of them. My hair has tight curls but if I blew it out with a blowdrier it would look like hers does. But if you notice her fro isn't dense and full like say Angela Davis's was. Her fro looks more light/fluffy/floppy.

 

[cocoberry10]

Here is another example. This is Dayana Pires (Brazilian model). She appears to have 4a/b hair, however, it also looks like it's silky when straight!

 

[cocoberry10]

I get what you're saying cocoberry. This is how my hair is. The first time I got it straightened my hairdresser was surprised it blew straight so easy. He said he expected some hard work when he first looked at it. The only thing I hate about it is that it gets fuzzy fast when it's in a natural style.

Thank you for knowing what I'm saying

I am trying to figure out whether my hair is also going to be like this (I think it might). I remember a hairdresser telling me that I had a tight curl. I told her (before she did my hair) "I have really coarse hair, so it may give you some trouble," and she was like, "you hair isn't coarse. Actually, it's very soft with a tight curl." The example above Dayana Pires is a very good example of this I think! I am trying to think of others. I know some people on this board have the type of hair I'm talking about, but I don't want to use their photos w/o permission!

 

[glamazon386]

Thank you for knowing what I'm saying

I am trying to figure out whether my hair is also going to be like this (I think it might). I remember a hairdresser telling me that I had a tight curl. I told her (before she did my hair) "I have really coarse hair, so it may give you some trouble," and she was like, "you hair isn't coarse. Actually, it's very soft with a tight curl." The example above Dayana Pires is a very good example of this I think! I am trying to think of others. I know some people on this board have the type of hair I'm talking about, but I don't want to use their photos w/o permission!

I would think that you would be able to tell by touching it but IDK for sure. I knew my hair did not feel coarse to the touch. It seems like the only thing that makes it feel like that is blowing it out with a blowdrier with no products without pulling it straight. Like just blasting it. It makes my hair feel dry and crunchy. And I get those clumpy bits near the ends like Emanuela's fro. It jacks up my ends too. That's why I don't like to wear my hair in a fro. I'd rather just wash and go.

ETA: When I first bced my hair was different than it is now. I think it was because I wasn't moisturizing it enough while I was transitioning. So you might have to wait to tell.

 

[cocoberry10]

I would think that you would be able to tell by touching it but IDK for sure. I knew my hair did not feel coarse to the touch. It seems like the only thing that makes it feel like that is blowing it out with a blowdrier with no products without pulling it straight. Like just blasting it. It makes my hair feel dry and crunchy. And I get those clumpy bits near the ends like Emanuela's fro. It jacks up my ends too. That's why I don't like to wear my hair in a fro. I'd rather just wash and go.

ETA: When I first bced my hair was different than it is now. I think it was because I wasn't moisturizing it enough while I was transitioning. So you might have to wait to tell.

That's what I think too! I think I have some scab hair, and also different textures (maybe ranging from 3c-4b???). Only time will tell!

 

[kiesha8185]

I get what you're saying.

There are some things you can do that can make your hair appear or feel more soft/silky. I think that it depends on how tight your cuticle is. You can do this with a lot of heat (not good) or do ACV rinses or use acidic conditioners.

I saw a more permanent change in the coarseness of my strands when I started using Ayurveda. I think Gym said that these products are acidic. Maybe that can tighten your cuticle and give you a smoother look/texture...

Just throwing off ideas here....I know I saw direct change in my texture when using these, so maybe you can try them too.

I think that's why henna gives people so much shine, regardless of their curl pattern/coil. It acts like a protein that "fills in" cracks in the cuticle by binding to the hair strand. This not only thickens the hair, and gives more shine and silky looking (especially if you use heat).

 

[cocoberry10]

Bumping. Here are some more photos
Emanuela De Paula

Ruth Ocumarez (former Miss DR)

 

[glamazon386]

Looking at the pictures I really think it's an issue of fine (kind of wispy, thin strands) hair vs. coarse (thick strands) hair. I hope my hair looks as great as some of these ladies when it gets long. This also may be why some naturals have a harder time dealing with their hair than others. My hair is pretty easy. I didn't think it would be like this.

 

[Southernbella.]

This is fascinating. I still don't fully understand coarse/thick/smooth/fine etc. and how it all works together.

I always thought my hair was rough because my hair is extremely thick (strandwise). Now that I'm fully natural, my hair is very smooth. My strands are still thick, but I guess my cuticles lay very flat.

My curls are tight in most places except the nape, which I think is common. The nape area is the smoothest, and it's also finer than the rest of my hair.

My dd's hair is very fine. Her curls are looser and her hair is smoother than mine, but she has more shrinkage and her hair looks a little kinkier than mine when fully shrunken with no product. It's really weird.

 

[glamazon386]

This is fascinating. I still don't fully understand coarse/thick/smooth/fine etc. and how it all works together.

I always thought my hair was rough because my hair is extremely thick (strandwise). Now that I'm fully natural, my hair is very smooth. My strands are still thick, but I guess my cuticles lay very flat.

My curls are tight in most places except the nape, which I think is common. The nape area is the smoothest, and it's also finer than the rest of my hair.
My dd's hair is very fine. Her curls are looser and her hair is smoother than mine, but she has more shrinkage and her hair looks a little kinkier than mine when fully shrunken with no product. It's really weird.

I read in a hair book that that's the case with most AA's. The back is a looser texture. I think that's why most people have a short nape. They treat it like the rest of their hair and then it breaks off.

 

[Cheleigh]

To me, texture trumps coil pattern. My pattern pretty much just tells you what my hair will look like without product, or what types of curls it's capable of attaining. However, my texture determines what styles I can pull off, what products my hair likes, and how much heat my hair can handle.

I have a tight curl pattern and kinky strands, but they are fine, and my hair straightens pretty easily with banding.

 

[cocoberry10]

For those with smooth texture, do you find that your hair will pull "straight" if pushed back into a ponytail?

 

[envybeauty]

I read in a hair book that that's the case with most AA's. The back is a looser texture. I think that's why most people have a short nape. They treat it like the rest of their hair and then it breaks off.

MY NAPE IS THE WORSE!! It is so frustrating. It is really tight texture AND extremely dry back there. 4z for sure.

I wish I could treat it differently because it does break easily when I wash.

ETA: I didn't realize until recently that I have a combination of thick and thick strands on my head.

When I look at my hair, I see thick strands (almost as thick as my eyebrows) and then other strands that look so thin (as thin as the hair on my arms).

 

[cocoberry10]

To me, texture trumps coil pattern. My pattern pretty much just tells you what my hair will look like without product, or what types of curls it's capable of attaining. However, my texture determines what styles I can pull off, what products my hair likes, and how much heat my hair can handle.

I have a tight curl pattern and kinky strands, but they are fine, and my hair straightens pretty easily with banding.

I agree with the bolded! I think if you have a smooth texture or a silky texture, it doesn't matter how loose or tight your pattern is. In fact, I think if your texture is really silky, you would benefit more from having a little tighter pattern, so you could do more versatile styles!

Here are some more pictures!

 

[envybeauty]

Okay ladies! I didn't find anything that really addressed this when I searched.

I know all about 3a, 3b, 3c, 4a, 4b, 4c, 4zlol.

Anyway, I am still transitioning and haven't done a BC (and am trying to hold off until June or July)!

My question is: Do you think that texture plays more into what you can/cannot do with your hair than simply coil pattern?

Meaning, do you think that if you had the pattern of 3a/b/c, but a very coarse, rough texture, that you would be more limited than someone with 4a/b/c/d/z that had very soft/silky texture but very tightly coiled strands?

YES!!!!

My friend is mixed. Her mom is Swiss white. Her father is Ghanian. She is a Black woman (by appearances) down to her hair. Her hair looks like it could be 4b from a far. When she cuts it low, it looks like a twa with undefined coils (like 4b hair). However, when you touch it, it feels like white people's hair. It is VERY silky in texture to the touch. Her strands are also very thick. She says it surprises every stylist she goes to because you don't expect it when you see her hair.

Me: 4b hair with very course texture.

We both have very different styling options. I don't think we should even be using the same perm.

Another friend I know has silky hair and her stylist uses the white people's perm on her hair but she does not curl the hair; the stylist smoothes it straight with that perm in her hair (like how we smooth our hair when perming).

 

[OneInAMillion]

Looking at the pictures I really think it's an issue of fine (kind of wispy, thin strands) hair vs. coarse (thick strands) hair. I hope my hair looks as great as some of these ladies when it gets long. This also may be why some naturals have a harder time dealing with their hair than others. My hair is pretty easy. I didn't think it would be like this.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

You guys have me contemplating a transition (again ). Glamazon, I think our hair textures are exactly the same. When I was natural hair dressers would say the same thing (i.e. this is going to be hard to straighten) but my hair is fine and it would blowdry straight pretty easily.

Thanks for posting this thread coco...

 

[BrownSkin2]

I have to agree. Texture trumps coil pattern. I have coarse, wirey 4b hair, and it will not do alot of the things 4b fine hair will do. For example, I did a braidout recently using curling creme and a gel, as one of my co-workers did, and sat under the dryer an hour. My coworker has 4b fine natural hair and her hair turned out soft and silky looking. We used the same products, but mine turned out wirey and frizzy looking. She can wear her hair this way for a week or two before doing it again.

 

[FlowerHair]

Okay ladies! I didn't find anything that really addressed this when I searched.

I know all about 3a, 3b, 3c, 4a, 4b, 4c, 4zlol.

Anyway, I am still transitioning and haven't done a BC (and am trying to hold off until June or July)!

My question is: Do you think that texture plays more into what you can/cannot do with your hair than simply coil pattern?

Meaning, do you think that if you had the pattern of 3a/b/c, but a very coarse, rough texture, that you would be more limited than someone with 4a/b/c/d/z that had very soft/silky texture but very tightly coiled strands?

I'm really trying to learn my natural hair, and I'm starting to wonder if texture is more determinative of a hair's styling options than simply the pattern.

I am just curious and hope someone with knowledge can share! I hope this doesn't offend anyone, b/c I know on this board that we have all learned how to do much with the beautiful diverse hair we were given!

I'm going to search for some photos to show what I mean!

That's a very interesting question.
My hair is 3b/c but my strands are very coarse compared to my friend's hair that is the same curl size.

The good thing about having coarse hair is that it doesn't break very easily and if you have fixed your hair one way it kinda stays that way. My curls relax into flat waves after a day or two and her hair stays curly and bouncy every day.

My friend has very silky and fine hair strands and the good thing about her hair is that she can easily slick it down with water only. The downside is that it tangles like crazy, even after a 15 minute nap. When I comb her hair it tangles as soon as I have combed one section, even if I put the combed hair in a braid or twist. My hair stays detangled.

Our hairs look very similar, but feel very different...my hair feels rough and hard to the touch, like Asian hair or horse hair , her hair feels soft and cushiony...

She actually has a lot more hair than me, but it looks like our hairs are equally thick, because of my thick strands. Her hair also has more shine, versus my hair's sheen.

I think our options regarding hair styles are the same , we just have to treat our hairs a little differently. Her hair responds very well to water, but my hair needs water and oils/butters. Her hair was really straight when she relaxed it, my hair was more or less the same unless I blow dried for 45 mins We have both been natural most of our lives.

ETA: I just wanted to add that my hair in the nape is very silky and soft, it straightens from brushing only. It's the same length as the rest of the hair though, except for a few wispy strands.

 

[anon123]

This is a really interesting discussion. So there seem to be three things here: (1) coil pattern (2) how the cuticle lies and (3) thickness or coarseness of individual strands. Okay, that makes sense. Sometimes I'd wonder how people were able to do certain styles and they'd be a 4b just like me. My strands are medium to fine in thickness, but I have a lot of them (oh, that's # (4) density). I guess I'd have to think that my hair, in addition to my tight coil pattern, has non-smooth cuticles. Combine that with my density and trying to get a slicked back puff is like I don't even bother, really. Like flat ironing, though the last time I did it was years ago, my hair came nowhere near being straight with a flat iron. Which was good, as it happens, because I really like the floppy afro it produces. Just saying, a flat iron is not going to straighten my hair unless it is actually on fire, in which case I guess it would straighten my hair by melting it.

 

[FlowerHair]

For those with smooth texture, do you find that your hair will pull "straight" if pushed back into a ponytail?

My hair will pull straight very easily in a ponytail, even though it's coarse. But I usually put a scarf around it

 

[Gemini350z]

Great discussion, subscribing!

 

[SleepyJean]

For those with smooth texture, do you find that your hair will pull "straight" if pushed back into a ponytail?

When I had natural, it was sooooo difficult making a ponytail!

OT: Y'all have helped me figure out my TRUE texture. I'm a thick 4B(no A) with coarse strands. My curls are not defined AT ALL or wispy! They're rough (or coarse I guess) and undefined. This is really interesting.