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Loosen 4b hair WITHOUT perms/text...

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Any product that does not list every single ingrediant cannot be trusted. The natural relaxer site used generalized terms like "nut butters". They should not be afraid to list everything if it is natural. The second website stole there pictures from Ojon. That is there product that have on the front page of the Ojon site. That makes them not be reputable. I didn't look at the you tube thing. Don't have time. Trust me, if there was a real natural relaxer that really worked well, everybody would be using it. It wouldn't be on some little know obsecure websites.
 
I know someone who used the baka beautiful thing. I can't help but laugh every time I hear that name because "baka" mean "fool" in Japanese. She is 4b and she said it was just a conditioner. But I think the site says you have to use it several times. It's not cheap, so I guess you'd have to be willing to put up the money to find out. Have you tried henna or the yogurt thing? For these things, too, people say you have to do them several times before you notice any difference.
 
Lebiya said:
I there a way to straighten OR significantly loosen my 4b hair without using a perm/ texturizer?...even for a fews hours only if possible

..I’m just soo tired of the struggles of detangling
Click to expand...

...blow dryer...flat iron...pressing comb...
 
vkb247 said:
I don't think that shingling with AO will work because this is a conditioner. You will need a styling product with some hold.
Click to expand...

Can someone break it down?
what's the difference (ingredients) with conditioner and styling product?

I'm moving over to products with no cones or mineral oil but what things give hold without drying??

:drunk:

I see the label on the curly pudding says to not rinse out all of your conditioner before applying (to keep moisture).
 
^^^^^What is a " Hair Conditioner"?
The term " hair conditioner" is vague. Hair conditioners fall into different groups according to what you want to accomplish with your hair. People with thin hair need a specific kind of "conditioner", people with thick, dry hair need another...
Conditioners fall into six major categories:

Moisturizers
Reconstructors
Acidifiers
Detanglers
Thermal Protectors
Glossers
Oils (E.F.A.'s- essential fatty acids)

Moisturizers
Are concentrated with humectants. Humectants are compounds that attract and hold moisture into the hair. They may not necessarily contain botanicals or protein (they often do).

Reconstructors
Normally contain protein. Hydrolyzed human hair keratin protein is the best source, because it contains all 19 amino acids found in the hair. Human hair keratin protein has a low molecular weight. This enables the it to penetrate the hair shaft (the cortex). The main purpose of a reconstructor is to strengthen the hair.

Acidifiers
The key word here is "acid". Yes, is is good to put acid on your hair. When a product carries a pH of 2.5 to 3.5 it is normally termed an acidifier. This pH will close (compact) the cuticle layer of the hair. The result is shiny, bouncy hair. This pH range will adjust the beta bonds to alpha bonds (hydrogen bonds). Acidifiers do not weigh the hair. They do create shine, and add elasticity. This category is great for people with fine textured hair.

Detanglers
Most detanglers are acidifiers (see above). Most have low pH's 2.5 to 3.5. They close the cuticle of the hair which cause tangles. Some "shield" the hair shaft with polymers (polymers are strings of "like" molecules- a chain). Some detanglers are instant, some take 1-5 minutes to work.

Thermal Protectors
Thermal protectors safeguard the hair against heat. Using thermal protectors are one of the best things you can do to your hair if you blow dry, use curling irons, or hot rollers. They normally use heat absorbing polymers that distribute the heat, so your hair does not get heat damage (a major cause of hair damage)

Glossers
For the most part glossers are cosmetic. Most Glossers contain dimethicone or cyclomethicone ( very light oils derived from silicone). Used in small amounts they reflect light. Also, they are one of the best products to control the "frizzies."

Oils (E.F.A.'s)
If you have dry hair (esp. if you have chemicals on your hair color-perm-relaxer} you need to add oil to your hair. The scalp produces a natural oil called sebum. EFA's are the closest thing to natural sebum (sebum contain EFA'S). EFA's can take very dry and porous hair and transform it into soft pliable hair.

Recommendations:
Safflower Oil (used sparingly)
http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=104988

I bELIEVE THAT ao IS A MOISTURIZER. a STYLINg product is somethinG YOU USE TO ACHIEVE A CERTAIN style. Like gel is used to definE CURLS ANd slick down EDGES, MOUSSE CAN definE CURLS ANd give bODY ANd hold, settinG LOTION holds a rollerset anD GIVES IT SHINe.

cURLY PUDDINg holds a style that is why you will probABLY Need a moisturizer with it to make your hair soft anD WHY THE ao WHICH WILL MAE YOUR HAIR SOFT WILL Not give you this hairstyle bECAUSE IT HAS No hold anD IS Not designED TO DEFINe curls either. HTH

Sorry for the crazy typinG, DROPPED MY LAPTOP THE OTHER DAY :(
 
Last edited:
vkb247 said:
^^^^^What is a " Hair Conditioner"?
The term " hair conditioner" is vague. Hair conditioners fall into different groups according to what you want to accomplish with your hair. People with thin hair need a specific kind of "conditioner", people with thick, dry hair need another...
Conditioners fall into six major categories:

Moisturizers
Reconstructors
Acidifiers
Detanglers
Thermal Protectors
Glossers
Oils (E.F.A.'s- essential fatty acids)

Moisturizers
Are concentrated with humectants. Humectants are compounds that attract and hold moisture into the hair. They may not necessarily contain botanicals or protein (they often do).

Reconstructors
Normally contain protein. Hydrolyzed human hair keratin protein is the best source, because it contains all 19 amino acids found in the hair. Human hair keratin protein has a low molecular weight. This enables the it to penetrate the hair shaft (the cortex). The main purpose of a reconstructor is to strengthen the hair.

Acidifiers
The key word here is "acid". Yes, is is good to put acid on your hair. When a product carries a pH of 2.5 to 3.5 it is normally termed an acidifier. This pH will close (compact) the cuticle layer of the hair. The result is shiny, bouncy hair. This pH range will adjust the beta bonds to alpha bonds (hydrogen bonds). Acidifiers do not weigh the hair. They do create shine, and add elasticity. This category is great for people with fine textured hair.

Detanglers
Most detanglers are acidifiers (see above). Most have low pH's 2.5 to 3.5. They close the cuticle of the hair which cause tangles. Some "shield" the hair shaft with polymers (polymers are strings of "like" molecules- a chain). Some detanglers are instant, some take 1-5 minutes to work.

Thermal Protectors
Thermal protectors safeguard the hair against heat. Using thermal protectors are one of the best things you can do to your hair if you blow dry, use curling irons, or hot rollers. They normally use heat absorbing polymers that distribute the heat, so your hair does not get heat damage (a major cause of hair damage)

Glossers
For the most part glossers are cosmetic. Most Glossers contain dimethicone or cyclomethicone ( very light oils derived from silicone). Used in small amounts they reflect light. Also, they are one of the best products to control the "frizzies."

Oils (E.F.A.'s)
If you have dry hair (esp. if you have chemicals on your hair color-perm-relaxer} you need to add oil to your hair. The scalp produces a natural oil called sebum. EFA's are the closest thing to natural sebum (sebum contain EFA'S). EFA's can take very dry and porous hair and transform it into soft pliable hair.

Recommendations:
Safflower Oil (used sparingly)
http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=104988

I bELIEVE THAT ao IS A MOISTURIZER. a STYLINg product is somethinG YOU USE TO ACHIEVE A CERTAIN style. Like gel is used to definE CURLS ANd slick down EDGES, MOUSSE CAN definE CURLS ANd give bODY ANd hold, settinG LOTION holds a rollerset anD GIVES IT SHINe.

cURLY PUDDINg holds a style that is why you will probABLY Need a moisturizer with it to make your hair soft anD WHY THE ao WHICH WILL MAE YOUR HAIR SOFT WILL Not give you this hairstyle bECAUSE IT HAS No hold anD IS Not designED TO DEFINe curls either. HTH

Sorry for the crazy typinG, DROPPED MY LAPTOP THE OTHER DAY :(
Click to expand...
thank you so much!!! now the whole acidifier thing is completely new to me!!! so thats the deal with detanglers eh?! ok - dss here i come! any recommendations for a good detangler?
 
I don't know if this helps but henna gives my hair some weight (a little stretch)

Also staying in stretched out styles helps me with tangles (ie braid outs, etc)
 
vkb247 said:
^^^^^What is a " Hair Conditioner"?
The term " hair conditioner" is vague. Hair conditioners fall into different groups according to what you want to accomplish with your hair. People with thin hair need a specific kind of "conditioner", people with thick, dry hair need another...
Conditioners fall into six major categories:

Moisturizers
Reconstructors
Acidifiers
Detanglers
Thermal Protectors
Glossers
Oils (E.F.A.'s- essential fatty acids)

Moisturizers
Are concentrated with humectants. Humectants are compounds that attract and hold moisture into the hair. They may not necessarily contain botanicals or protein (they often do).

Reconstructors
Normally contain protein. Hydrolyzed human hair keratin protein is the best source, because it contains all 19 amino acids found in the hair. Human hair keratin protein has a low molecular weight. This enables the it to penetrate the hair shaft (the cortex). The main purpose of a reconstructor is to strengthen the hair.

Acidifiers
The key word here is "acid". Yes, is is good to put acid on your hair. When a product carries a pH of 2.5 to 3.5 it is normally termed an acidifier. This pH will close (compact) the cuticle layer of the hair. The result is shiny, bouncy hair. This pH range will adjust the beta bonds to alpha bonds (hydrogen bonds). Acidifiers do not weigh the hair. They do create shine, and add elasticity. This category is great for people with fine textured hair.

Detanglers
Most detanglers are acidifiers (see above). Most have low pH's 2.5 to 3.5. They close the cuticle of the hair which cause tangles. Some "shield" the hair shaft with polymers (polymers are strings of "like" molecules- a chain). Some detanglers are instant, some take 1-5 minutes to work.

Thermal Protectors
Thermal protectors safeguard the hair against heat. Using thermal protectors are one of the best things you can do to your hair if you blow dry, use curling irons, or hot rollers. They normally use heat absorbing polymers that distribute the heat, so your hair does not get heat damage (a major cause of hair damage)

Glossers
For the most part glossers are cosmetic. Most Glossers contain dimethicone or cyclomethicone ( very light oils derived from silicone). Used in small amounts they reflect light. Also, they are one of the best products to control the "frizzies."

Oils (E.F.A.'s)
If you have dry hair (esp. if you have chemicals on your hair color-perm-relaxer} you need to add oil to your hair. The scalp produces a natural oil called sebum. EFA's are the closest thing to natural sebum (sebum contain EFA'S). EFA's can take very dry and porous hair and transform it into soft pliable hair.

Recommendations:
Safflower Oil (used sparingly)
http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=104988

I bELIEVE THAT ao IS A MOISTURIZER. a STYLINg product is somethinG YOU USE TO ACHIEVE A CERTAIN style. Like gel is used to definE CURLS ANd slick down EDGES, MOUSSE CAN definE CURLS ANd give bODY ANd hold, settinG LOTION holds a rollerset anD GIVES IT SHINe.

cURLY PUDDINg holds a style that is why you will probABLY Need a moisturizer with it to make your hair soft anD WHY THE ao WHICH WILL MAE YOUR HAIR SOFT WILL Not give you this hairstyle bECAUSE IT HAS No hold anD IS Not designED TO DEFINe curls either. HTH

Sorry for the crazy typinG, DROPPED MY LAPTOP THE OTHER DAY :(
Click to expand...

thanks for sharing that!

Here is a question...

the cheap conditioners for detangling ie suave, VO5,...

are these protein or moisure??


I think my hair is looking for moisture externally and protein internally.
I increased my protein consumption and started using AO HSR.

Everything was gravy till I ran out of the HSR yesterday.
I used some of the VO5 for my wet bun instead of the HSR this morning.

As I took the bun down tonight to add more moisture I noticed some hair come out in my fingers. it was closer to coton instead of curls and harder than usual.

could this be from using the VO5 as a leave in today?
or could it have been from something else??
 
Last edited:
4a/b here...

I used baking soda and it stretched my hair but I think that's because I used it on a whim...didn't really know what I was doing and applied lots of it. I was depressed at first because my coils were more relaxed. With gymfreak's advice I used a protein treatment 2 wks later and my hair was restored. I won't ever use so much again, but I will use a diluted concentration as a scalp cleanser.
 
lwilliams1922 said:
thanks for sharing that!

Here is a question...

the cheap conditioners for detangling ie suave, VO5,...

are these protein or moisure??


I think my hair is looking for moisture externally and protein internally.
I increased my protein consumption and started using AO HSR.

Everything was gravy till I ran out of the HSR yesterday.
I used some of the VO5 for my wet bun instead of the HSR this morning.

As I took the bun down tonight to add more moisture I noticed some hair come out in my fingers. it was closer to coton instead of curls and harder than usual.

could this be from using the VO5 as a leave in today?
or could it have been from something else??
Click to expand...

They can be moisture, protein, or both. You really have to read the ingredients. Generally speaking if it says reconstructing or strengthening or volumizing than it probably has some type of protein. My hair hates protein but the protein in the cowashers I use helps keep my hair balanced and not mushy. Plus protein can actually help you keep moisture in too.

I don't think that the VO5 alone would have been enough to cause break, especially if you just did this once...but the hair hair does sound like a too much protein or not enough moisture issue.
 
Ok so those who use the Brazilian perm thins, do you have to use a blow dryer/flat iron???
 
Honey. When I condition my hair with honey it makes my hair straighter (not a looser curl) but I don't really do it as my hair is still short, and it just doesn't look right yet. It's looks much better coily curly.
 
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