Ayurvedic Experts/Users...Please help!

[FindingMe]

I'm also careful about what Western conventional products I use in combo w/ my vedic stuff. I've always found Nature's Gate and most "organic" products found in health food stores far too drying for my hair. I can't predict how it would work w/ veda.

The Jane Cater stuff has several of the herbs/oils used in both the veda bar and the Nature's Gate...so maybe you're overloading there. LOL...maybe you just need a plain ole cheapie and not the fancy stuff to go along w/ it? My IndoPak friends tend to use drugstore stuff and not the $10+ a bottle stuff. Dunno.

As for Vatika, it has several herbs in it which can act as proteins for some people. It has both coconut oil as its base AND henna It also has lemon oil which can be drying for some. In addition, it shares the many of the same herbs the other 3 products have.

When you say cheapie, like a V05? I have a ton of that that I really like...

I think I overdid it with the Vatika oil + the complex poo bar, so maybe I'll try to go real generic around the other products since the bar has so much other stuff in it. Thanks for the insight, sis!

 

[FindingMe]

I'm also careful about what Western conventional products I use in combo w/ my vedic stuff. I've always found Nature's Gate and most "organic" products found in health food stores far too drying for my hair. I can't predict how it would work w/ veda.

The Jane Cater stuff has several of the herbs/oils used in both the veda bar and the Nature's Gate...so maybe you're overloading there. LOL...maybe you just need a plain ole cheapie and not the fancy stuff to go along w/ it? My IndoPak friends tend to use drugstore stuff and not the $10+ a bottle stuff. Dunno.

As for Vatika, it has several herbs in it which can act as proteins for some people. It has both coconut oil as its base AND henna It also has lemon oil which can be drying for some. In addition, it shares the many of the same herbs the other 3 products have.

I think I don't like the Vatika overnight. I think plain old coconut oil as a pre-poo would work better. My hair seems to love Ojon restorative treatment as a pre-poo, so I am assuming (you know what happens when you assume) my hair like palm oil, so I might try that as well. I think I might let the Vatika go....

No some of these things CAUSE dryness. For African textures, I rarely think citrus oils are good for hair. Vatika seems to be OK for most, but other stuff has too much for us. Frankly, I'm not keen on acids being used outright even tho many peole have success w/ AVC rinses. That's just my poisiiton on the matter.

Oh my...this post is SO informative and I thank you for it. If this interacts badly w/ hard water AND requires and avc/acid rinse, forget it IMHO! Too much trouble for my money. I'm troubled by the need for EXTRA acid considering that both the bar and the vatika have citrus oils.

Swastik is a GREAT bar for the money (about $2) BUT you have to REALLY DC w/ this bar cuz it strips the hair. That's what shikakai does and that's what you want, in addition to the other growth propeties the herb has. I do use it "as needed" not everytime I wash and immediately afterwards put a heavy duty DC on w/ minimal manipulation. IOW, put on you DC and do NOTHING to your hair until it's fully covered w/ rich condish. Don't worry, it won't leave you w/ dryness if you do it this way.

So much help you are (hugs)...I'm gonna warn another sistah off this bar. LOL...it's great to save money when you can.

Oh my gosh, that's what is was like...stripped!! It was straighter and frizzier than normal, but THANK GOODNESS it didn't feel hard. I prolly would have burst out in tears as I was already thrown off enough. I think I need to really put a LOT of moisture back in after I do everything (DC, etc.)

Although, I only paid a couple of bucks for the CV sample bar, I did want to give it a fair shot. I use filtered water on my hair and usually poo bars do well with it in terms of water hardness. ACV rinses work well for my hair, but my scalp seems to suffer a little for it after about 3 days and becomes more itchy than normal. It always happens after I use ACV and I have tried minimal dilutions and it still occurs, so I think I just may be sensitive to it.

Two cheap but VERY good Indo Pak made bars are Swatisk (mentioned above) Nimal Aritha Soap. If you know little about the raw herbs and/or are uncomfortable dealing w/ whole or powdered sopanuts (ie aritha/reetha)...the bars are the way tp go. They're about $2 or so a piece.

Thanks! I think I will try the Swatisk bc I poo bars on my hair

This is just my opinion, but I think it's the nature's gate conditioner that did it . I used natures gate before and it left my hair feeling weird. But I could be wrong. I love chagrin valley's shampoo bars, though I never tried the ayurvedic one, and I've also used the vatika oil before, and I liked it. But then again, I'm a relaxed head so I didn't notice any change in texture.

Y'all are about to hurt my feelings bc I just bought another bottle of this stuff. It's is kinda thin, but I'm wondering should I have used it like a "rinsing" conditioner and then followed up with a DC. I have KBB's DC I could use...

You're ? absolutely right. Citrons, oils or juices, can be highly drying for all hair, but African textures which already incline to dryness? Umm...do I have to say more
NOPE!!!
I'm troubled by the need for EXTRA acid considering that both the bar and the vatika have citrus oils.




Yup, the herbs themselves CAN be quite harsh if you don't know your "dosage" in any real quanities (say .5 oz+) as well as in combo. Bhringraj is wonderful, but I like it better as an infused oil. As for brahmi, I don't use it raw except in henna mixes. I just buy good old Ramthrith's and call it a day wrt an oil of it.

I think the maka/brahmi works best for me in oil form as well.
I love ramtirth brahmi, I have coconut based, but for my dosha(kapha-pitta) I will use the sesame from now on. It has given a couple of headaches. This is the first cooling oil that did that. Makes me pause and be more conscious of my dosha in selecting pdts. I see its easy to go too far.

cool!

I agree with the poster who said it may be the nature's gate also. I have experienced an interesting feeling after using them before. If you are going to use the bar you might want to concentrate on using your best bonafide moisturizing(protein free?) dc with it and keep the rest simple (maybe non ayurvedic) to avoid overload.That would be my advice. Your natural hair is so much more stronger than your relaxed hair was and maybe too many strengthening things at once.[/QUOTE]

Dagggg....it seems overwheling consensus that the NG was not conditioning enough...I think I will adjust that portion definitely! Thanks!

Ok, so taking all your suggestions and thoughful responses into account (THANKS!), I think I will adjust by:

1. doing an oil pre poo that I KNOW my hair likes
2. try the CV veda-ish poo bar again
3. rinse with Natures Gate or a cheapie condish like V05
4. DC, DC, DC

I think I could have avoided this whole thread if I had DC'd after. Just so I know, do you need to DC every time you use ayurveda products?

 

[jamaraa]

Hi FindingMe I was wondering where you were. Have your qeustions been answered to your satisfaction? About the NG...it could be that too. Your combo was just too complex, IMHO. Maybe use the bar around cheapies and be careful w/ the NG. You might be able to use it as a rinse of some kind (just to use it up OR put it on the product exchange board), but use something w/ more moisture.

Your revised plan sounds A OK to me. What do the rest of y'all think?

I use things differently, but for people who use them as pre poos OR use a bar like Swastik, I'd DC every time, but then again I ALWAYS DC ALL THE TIME!

 

[jamaraa]

i use the chandrika soap instead of a body wash! it's really nice. after using this, i don't feel like i need to put on lotion afterwards, like i would if i used a body wash with sulfates.
tulsi helps to remove excess oil in from skin (i think) and gives it a matte complexion.
henna extract probably helps to even the skin tone?

I can't see how henna would even out skin tone given that henna isn't an exfoliant. Usually that's the job of an exfoliant (ex.milk in some form). Maybe they added it for "pitta" reasons (ie cooling), but in terms of what henna does as is...it ADDS things, not subtracts (ie an exfoliant).

 

[a_shoe_6307]

I use shikakai shampoo bar and ayurvedic powders and oils and never had had these results. Are you sure that poo bar was vedic as one of the ladies mentioned before? This is like when products represent themselves as "all natural" or organic and are not. You have to be very careful who you purchase from and what products because you will not get the same results as you get from real vedic products. Also, I have never been frizzy after using my products. However, it can loosen your curl pattern, but not totally change it and straighten it. I refer to it as being more manageable, but not anything near to straight.

 

[kasey]

Thanks OP and ladies for this informative thread. It inspired me to try an ayurvedic paste this afternoon.

My paste included:
2 TB shikakai
2 TB fullers earth
1 tsp neem
1 tsp amla
Britta-filtered, room temp water

I rubbed the mix on my roots and spread it through my hair. Both today and yesterday I spent some time in the sauna/steam room with a homemade shea/coconut oil mix on my hair. The shea/coconut made my hair very soft, but a bit coated.

I left the paste on for about an hour. During the rinse out I was surprised how well the paste cut the shea/coconut oils without stripping.

I took a cue from the posters and DC'd with NTM for about a half hour. When I rinsed my hair was really soft, but feeling a bit fortified. Like the OP's results, my strands didn't clump.

I applied about a half teaspoon of NTM leave in and a half teaspoon of Parachute Coconut oil. I'm now airdrying in twists. I think this regimen is a keeper for the rest of this month. If I cut the shikakai to 1TB I will have enough supplies to do one treatment for the next three or four Sunday's.

 

[Computer Blue]

I think I need to really put a LOT of moisture back in after I do everything (DC, etc.)

Although, I only paid a couple of bucks for the CV sample bar, I did want to give it a fair shot. I use filtered water on my hair and usually poo bars do well with it in terms of water hardness. ACV rinses work well for my hair, but my scalp seems to suffer a little for it after about 3 days and becomes more itchy than normal. It always happens after I use ACV and I have tried minimal dilutions and it still occurs, so I think I just may be sensitive to it.



Thanks! I think I will try the Swatisk bc I poo bars on my hair



Y'all are about to hurt my feelings bc I just bought another bottle of this stuff. It's is kinda thin, but I'm wondering should I have used it like a "rinsing" conditioner and then followed up with a DC. I have KBB's DC I could use...





Dagggg....it seems overwheling consensus that the NG was not conditioning enough...I think I will adjust that portion definitely! Thanks!

Ok, so taking all your suggestions and thoughful responses into account (THANKS!), I think I will adjust by:

1. doing an oil pre poo that I KNOW my hair likes
2. try the CV veda-ish poo bar again
3. rinse with Natures Gate or a cheapie condish like V05
4. DC, DC, DC

I think I could have avoided this whole thread if I had DC'd after. Just so I know, do you need to DC every time you use ayurveda products?

veda-ish
4. yes, yes, yes! I would always DC after any ayurvedic tx

Maybe you could save the Nature's gate for when not using the cv bar. If your hair likes it otherwise, then I say don't fix what isn't broke.

Second Jamaraa's stance, I would always DC! That can a lot of times correct any "off" state IME.

 

[jamaraa]

If I cut the shikakai to 1TB I will have enough supplies to do one treatment for the next three or four Sunday's.

I'd use only 1tb from here on out. Not only is it more economical, but that stuff can he a hard core detergent-y cleaning agent. Some people use it as a replacement for shampoo in higher amounts. Shikakai is nice for scalp and conditioning purposes in the smaller amounts, IMHO.

 

[*Muffin*]

Y'all are about to hurt my feelings bc I just bought another bottle of this stuff. It's is kinda thin, but I'm wondering should I have used it like a "rinsing" conditioner and then followed up with a DC. I have KBB's DC I could use...

Me: Aww...don't be upset. We could be wrong, and it could possibly be the combo of the conditioner and something else you used that made your hair upset. I'm biased. I really don't like that conditioner, but I'm sure somebody, somewhere does, and perhaps the same person likes those EO conditioners that my hair hates, but that's another story...




cool!

I agree with the poster who said it may be the nature's gate also. I have experienced an interesting feeling after using them before. If you are going to use the bar you might want to concentrate on using your best bonafide moisturizing(protein free?) dc with it and keep the rest simple (maybe non ayurvedic) to avoid overload.That would be my advice. Your natural hair is so much more stronger than your relaxed hair was and maybe too many strengthening things at once.


Me: Interesting feeling.... That's one way to describe it *crunch, crunch*.

 

[FindingMe]

Hi FindingMe I was wondering where you were. Have your qeustions been answered to your satisfaction? About the NG...it could be that too. Your combo was just too complex, IMHO. Maybe use the bar around cheapies and be careful w/ the NG. You might be able to use it as a rinse of some kind (just to use it up OR put it on the product exchange board), but use something w/ more moisture.

Your revised plan sounds A OK to me. What do the rest of y'all think?

I use things differently, but for people who use them as pre poos OR use a bar like Swastik, I'd DC every time, but then again I ALWAYS DC ALL THE TIME!

Thanks!!! It was "family" day today, so I've been off and on the board all day I think I need to up my DC usage. What do you use for DCs?

I use shikakai shampoo bar and ayurvedic powders and oils and never had had these results. Are you sure that poo bar was vedic as one of the ladies mentioned before? This is like when products represent themselves as "all natural" or organic and are not. You have to be very careful who you purchase from and what products because you will not get the same results as you get from real vedic products. Also, I have never been frizzy after using my products. However, it can loosen your curl pattern, but not totally change it and straighten it. I refer to it as being more manageable, but not anything near to straight.

I don't think it was real vedic. I think from reading you ladies' posts that it's basically just a soap maker's take on a popular and emerging trend http://www.chagrinvalleysoap.com/shambar.htm. I was being lazy and just thought it would be an easy way to experience an ayurvedic regi and I threw in some Vatika oil and thought I was doing something (until my hair came out looking like a soft broom...)

Thanks OP and ladies for this informative thread. It inspired me to try an ayurvedic paste this afternoon.

My paste included:
2 TB shikakai
2 TB fullers earth
1 tsp neem
1 tsp amla
Britta-filtered, room temp water

I rubbed the mix on my roots and spread it through my hair. Both today and yesterday I spent some time in the sauna/steam room with a homemade shea/coconut oil mix on my hair. The shea/coconut made my hair very soft, but a bit coated.

I left the paste on for about an hour. During the rinse out I was surprised how well the paste cut the shea/coconut oils without stripping.

I took a cue from the posters and DC'd with NTM for about a half hour. When I rinsed my hair was really soft, but feeling a bit fortified. Like the OP's results, my strands didn't clump.

I applied about a half teaspoon of NTM leave in and a half teaspoon of Parachute Coconut oil. I'm now airdrying in twists. I think this regimen is a keeper for the rest of this month. If I cut the shikakai to 1TB I will have enough supplies to do one treatment for the next three or four Sunday's.

I actually like it, too. I want to try it for an extended period to really see if it makes a difference. It took me about 3 months to see a true difference and get consistent results after I BC'd and started a no sulfate/cone regi. I think it will take at least that long to understand how to manage this type of regimen.

I think what I experienced was my hair being a little stripped. The softness threw me off...I use a very heavy moisturizing cream (Afroveda Curly Custard) to twist and once I twisted and it dried, my hair felt very springy and looked shiny and smooth. It's a little straighter with less curl than usual, but it was like that before I twisted...the end results are about as complex as the ingredients in that doggone poo bar regardless, I think I like it

Pics of 2 day old twists with vedic-like regi below:


This is what my twists usually look like:

 

[jamaraa]

FindingMe aww sweet, family day! I rotate products alot, so I have many and they last a long time. My (super expensive) standbys are Mizani Hyrdofuse and Moisutrefuse AND Goldwell's Kerasilk. Anything Goldwell is primo quality, IMHO...can't fail (almost) anyone.

Lately I've been trying some Dominican stuff....Miss Key's 10 en 1 is a no cone, no mineral oil choice (be sure to get the plain no protein kind). Grocery store brands are Dove and Sunsilk TLC....A OK on both lines.

No that bar wasn't vedic and neither are plenty of other Western trend grabbering products. shrug This stuff is veda(ish) or veda-like!

Umm...your twists DO look looser after the veda, but I don't suspect you are an "Andre 4" either. Both times are VERY pretty, but the texture looks straighter on time 2. For you, veda might give you more straightness, but not bone straight hair. Ever thought of henna-indigo?

 

[FindingMe]

FindingMe aww sweet, family day! I rotate products alot, so I have many and they last a long time. My (super expensive) standbys are Mizani Hyrdofuse and Moisutrefuse AND Goldwell's Kerasilk. Anything Goldwell is primo quality, IMHO...can't fail (almost) anyone.

Lately I've been trying some Dominican stuff....Miss Key's 10 en 1 is a no cone, no mineral oil choice (be sure to get the plain no protein kind). Grocery store brands are Dove and Sunsilk TLC....A OK on both lines.

No that bar wasn't vedic and neither are plenty of other Western trend grabbering products. shrug This stuff is veda(ish) or veda-like!

Umm...your twists DO look looser after the veda, but I don't suspect you are an "Andre 4" either. Both times are VERY pretty, but the texture looks straighter on time 2. For you, veda might give you more straightness, but not bone straight hair. Ever thought of henna-indigo?

See?! I know I wasn't imagining it, it's like my poor little twists would barely twist and they usually coil right on up on the ends...

Girl, I tried henna-indigo once (i really was tryna cover my gray) and the mixing and overnight sitting of the product and then making the idigo and then mixing it and then it had to stay on for like 4 hours was too much for me. You see I am over here tryna do ayurvedic poo bars bc I am lazy you got an easy way to do it? I still have enough fo another couple of treatments from Mehandi.com... Lemme go check and see what I have and I'll let you know-

 

[jamaraa]

Just decide what day you wanna do your henna treatment and mix it up the day before. Put it on and decide how long you want it on for. You might just do 1hr or whatever. Rinse. Mix up your indigo w/ warm water and let it sit for about 10 mins or so. put it on. Thats all there is to it. The online world has taken something SO SIMPLE and made it complex and time consuming.

LOL...I DID say that "Andre's 2s-3s" do tend get more noticable pattern relaxing than 4s. I just don't want 4s nursing false hope. I didn't realize you were a 3 and even 2(ish). As much as I know about his system (which I reject but use sometimes to communicate here! ) you prove my case!

 

[FindingMe]

Just decide what day you wanna do your henna treatment and mix it up the day before. Put it on and decide how long you want it on for. You might just do 1hr or whatever. Rinse. Mix up your indigo w/ warm water and let it sit for about 10 mins or so. put it on. Thats all there is to it. The online world has taken something SO SIMPLE and made it complex and time consuming.

LOL...I DID say that "Andre's 2s-3s" do tend get more noticable pattern relaxing than 4s. I just don't want 4s nursing false hope. I didn't realize you were a 3 and even 2(ish). As much as I know about his system (which I reject but use sometimes to communicate here! ) you prove my case!

jamaraa, THANKS on the DCs!

I might give the henna-indigo another shot bc these gray hairs are killing my youthful exuberance!How long do I need to leave it in the cover the grays? Do I mix the henna and indigo together before putting on my hair? (I'd settle for a reddish brownish color...basically anything other than gray)

On another note: lady, ain't nobody over here in no Andre 2 range When I first BC'd I thought I was 4a-ish and people kept telling me I was wrong and then I discovered it was actually more like a coarse, thirsty 3c with maybe (still trying to figure it out) a little 3b areas sprinkled in the top...after that ayurveda-ish poo bar, it was so weird bc i could literally run a comb from root to end without snagging after using it but it was big and all around my head like a big fro, but still soft and moist and not hard

 

[jamaraa]

If you want reddish brown, you just leave dye release your henna and when you get ready to use it mix up your indigo and the combine them (I don't just add the indigo powder straight, I let it develop for about 10 mins.) This is what I do for my mother and it works fab. (She'd kill me if I told you her age, but she's got way more gray than you have.)

If you it want more red, add less indigo...the opposite if you want darker.

2 hrs-2.5 is probably enough to get full grey coverage given how few you have!

If I can be so bold to suggest this, I think reddish would be nice on you. I might do 100 grms henna to 50 grams of indigo.

Methinks you're multitextured Missy. Don't get smart...I see some 2 hair there and I mean it! (pout) Your texture really is complex tho...I can't make out from pics what's predominant. You did get starighter and will do so a bit more w/ henna...so if you want it, you got it!