How do you feel about members creating their own sites and charging?

[rinahbaby]

As for info, I think it should be free unless you have some brand new technique that is not available on free sites. But as for a product such as, haircare line, accessories such and such; definitely there should be a price to pay. As many product as I went through. There is no product alike. Even the knockoffs sometimes are different. Shoot! I hope to get my own product line in about 2 or 3 years. (in dream state now)
But all in all. If you want to compile info and sell it. I say go for it. You cant make anyone buy anything. I've bought a few hair books myself.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say. If the same info is free on other sites then it's not cool for you to charge to view the same info that is free elsewhere .....UNLESS you are offering Something new that you originated.....This particular site that I will no longer be paying for Has about 98% of it's info copied and pasted from other free sources. The only thing that I think is worth charging/paying for is the DIY/step-by-step videos because they are original, useful. Other than that, it's just not cool so I won't be paying for it again.

 

[jamaraa]

How old do you think LHCF is?

It went online in Oct 02 at this address. Whatever happened BEFORE went on at other addys and under other names. Many are defunct. You and I both know this isn't the 1st board dealing specifically w/ Black Hair Care.

 

[SVT]

It went online in Oct 02 at this address.

I think the board upgrade was Oct 02.

 

[fletches]

Mmm, I'm not naming ANY names but I do think it's kinda messed up that people take the info they got from here or any other site that has been around for a while and readily accessible and then turn around and make websites or write books like they discovered all of this on their own through trial and error without any help from other sources.

Major corporations do this all the time. Walmart has there own great value products sitting right up there with the name brands. Target has their own too. I think it's called Up. Sally's Beauty supply does this and a whole host of others.

They're just making copy cats of what was already created and profiting off it. *shrugs*

 

[SVT]

It went online in Oct 02 at this address. Whatever happened BEFORE went on at other addys and under other names. Many are defunct. You and I both know this isn't the 1st board dealing specifically w/ Black Hair Care.

You added to your original post.

I know LHCF isn't the first board dealing with Black haircare. The Yahoo boards were LEGENDARY.

I've noticed members have posted referencing the history of LHCF but with innaccuracies. Trying to help your memories out.

 

[wannabelong]

At first, I gave the members the side eye, then, I figured it's a free country. I can't knock their hustle, however, I will only pay for this site.

 

[Carolina18]

To me this site is totally different from long hair community. Long hair community focuses on a different type of hair and LHCF specifially focuses on African American hair which has different needs than their 1,2,and3a/b counterparts. That's understandable. To me.

So, in that case, is it not plausible that those different needs may require different fora as well? Can one cast a broad brush over the needs of 4a/b members? Moreover, 'AA hair' does include 2 and 3 hair types too.

Much of the info on LHC is applicable to us and not much different to the info on this site. Following your argument, LHC might as well have had an African American section, or AA members could have posted threads to cater for their hair, rather than Bev starting this site and charging us to post. Yet, I'm sure many appreciate a forum specifically dedicated to their demographic, even if our hair care techniques and needs could have been discussed on LHC without a problem (and for free).

 

[Lucie]

I don't care. I often wish I had the insight to do what MaCherieAmour did. I believe there is enough money, information, women willing to keep an open mind, to go around. I wish anyone who has or will create their own site, all the best!

 

[Carolina18]

I forgot to add - couldn't one argue that Bev if 'profiting' from the info contributed by paying members on this site? Isn't some of the info we share and learn already available on other (free) hair boards, blogs, and YouTube? Yet I doubt many would say this is unethical.

 

[lilsparkle825]

I just wonder what kind of conversations they have about threads like this.

 

[MzLady78]

Meh, not a big deal to me.

I've been here for almost 4 years, I think I know all I need to know about how to maintain my hair now, so hell if I'm gonna go else where and pay more money.

It's the interactions with other posters (some of whom I consider actual friends) and the overall entertainment that keep me here at this point.

 

[jamaraa]

I looked at macherieamour's site and it looks like she wants a very small clientele...100s of members at the most. If she's planning to interact w/ them and give very specific guidance, this could be great for someone. It's pricey, true enough, but cheaper than a Pibbs!

 

[Junebug D]

I looked at macherieamour's site and it looks like she wants a very small clientele...100s of members at the most. If she's planning to interact w/ them and give very specific guidance, this could be great for someone. It's pricey, true enough, but cheaper than a Pibbs!

And some people may need that. Here you see 50-11 different product recs and different advice coming from all angles; and then you become a PJ and start doing "experiments" to see if you have the same fabulous results these other 10 people had... If there is an "expert" who can give you one set of things to do and one-on-one advice tailored to your needs, that's a fantastic service. I'm thinking of joining there myself lately...

 

[akgirl]

I can think of one person specifically that has gorgeous hair, but was inundated with requests for her help. Normal people on this board don't have to deal with that. So I think she just figured if she's having to put that much time in to responding, creating videos etc, then she might as well get paid for her time. I say if these people are truly helpful in helping others achieve their goals, then go for it! Am I paying for it? Not any time soon, there's too much free info available (thanks ladies )

 

[LoveisYou]

And some people may need that. Here you see 50-11 different product recs and different advice coming from all angles; and then you become a PJ and start doing "experiments" to see if you have the same fabulous results these other 10 people had... If there is an "expert" who can give you one set of things to do and one-on-one advice tailored to your needs, that's a fantastic service. I'm thinking of joining there myself lately...

Exactly, not everyone has the luxury of browsing online for hours reading different threads.

 

[Kneechay]

As someone who went to graduate school for marketing, I'm going to reiterate something I learned & I'm paraphrasing, but emotions/feelings are separate from business. You hear the comment, "it's just business" and you know that's what separates those with the mindset and those without.

Sure LHCF is making tons of money from subscriptions. I'm also a web developer, and domains can cost as low as $1.99 with unlimited hosting running about 13 bucks a month (Godaddy). I assure you, a handful of subscriptions plus ad revenue, LHCF is not hurting. I have no doubt Bev and folks also have a desire to educate women on hair care, but it for sure isn't the sole reason for LHCF's existence. It's just business.

How do I feel about other members charging for their spin off sites? It makes me proud. Not only are more Black women making money, they are reaching even more people that need the help that don't know about LHCF. I got my friend to subscribe on this site, she has yet to post nor plans to because she says this site is not user friendly; she said she would have preferred more one on one help and a better search engine. Some other sites would have perhaps served her well.

I'm not going to lie, me and my cousins have taken the knowledge we've gained from here as well as other sources to start our own company in Nigeria. Along with our progress pictures, we have found from other websites, info on how to create natural shampoos, conditioners, and even made our own hair moisturizers. We've imported weave hair, trying to get a MAC franchise in Nigeria, and other beauty products. Currently, demand is high and I'm currently building the website, but we feel blessed that our shipments are sold out almost immediately with women and men asking for more. Asides from us wanting to help people in our country that have damaged their hair trying to mimic westernized beauty practices, we're conducting business. It takes time and effort. YOU do the same thing, and you'll understand. Hate it or love it, we're bringing something that's new.

Again, hats off to those who want to offer free advice because they want to be helpful, but we know that everyone is different. People do different things, makes the world go around and it's what sparks innovation.

 

[hairdrama:{]

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....................some people will do what they gotta do.....

 

[ladybuddafly]

I don't think it's an unrealistic expectation at all. I just typed "what is cowashing" into google and got...

The first result was a how to, then there were youtube videos, and then a thread from LHCF. It took maybe 5 seconds, including typing, to get those results.

When I typed in "what is cowashing site:longhaircareforum.com" I got...
and this is the first thread that came up:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=281693

On the one hand, if life is so busy for you then you probably wouldn't be on lhcf posting in the first place. But let's be real...it only takes a few seconds to search for the information. It takes longer to start a new thread and then wait for people to answer (and I don't know any thread that gets answered in less than a second, do you?).

Thank you for your response. First, let me be clear and perhaps you may want to re-read my post, because it clearly stated AFTER two hours of reading which has been the case for me. And while I used co-washing as the example, it was simply an EXAMPLE. It is not to say that I don't understand co-washing. Some of us have specific questions about things that...you know what.... Never mind. Wow.

 

[Kneechay]

Ok, I don't really mean to start drama by returning to this thread, but I just wanted to add a few more things.

I'm really trying to understand the position of those who feel it is 'wrong' to spin off your own hair care business for pay. It's life, we take what we learn as youth and as adults, branch out and become profitable with the knowledge.

I liken it to going to college and taking what you learn, getting a job with the skill and profiting off it. No?
What if your classmates feel that your boss compensating you is unfair because the company could get someone to do your job cheaper/free and that you're trying to make money off your 'collegiate education'?

LHCF also teaches resourcefulness. You learn things from so many different women and some salons lose out on money because of DIYers. In college, on the side, I acquired skill of design, web developing, and writing code because I know I wanted to start my own business and I was da*ned if I was going to pay some company ridiculous amounts of money to create my own marketing material.

My main point is, as Black women, we should appreciate their ventures, you don't have to donate but just understand their hustle. Businesses are spawned from other similar businesses and each of them provide something the other doesn't. Because you (a general 'you') have gotten ALL the information you need from LHCF doesn't mean others have achieved that.

 

[Solitude]

Thank you for your response. First, let me be clear and perhaps you may want to re-read my post, because it clearly stated AFTER two hours of reading which has been the case for me. And while I used co-washing as the example, it was simply an EXAMPLE. It is not to say that I don't understand co-washing. Some of us have specific questions about things that...you know what.... Never mind. Wow.

Girl, some of us get what you're saying. I've been on here for about a year and a half and I've read TONS of threads. I read a BUNCH of BKT threads, as well as Ayurveda threads and I still don't really "get" either one of these concepts. I mean, I understand the BKT process, but I'll have to read a hundred posts in order to figure out what to order.... I have wanted to try both, but I don't have fifty-million hours to research while I'm in law school and raising a child.

I'm just making a comparison to your example about co-washing. On some other sites, there would simply be an ARTICLE explaining these two concepts, along with a thread discussion. I would be able to ask questions without being told to "do a search" or "google it" or "read the thread."
________________________________________________________

Also, I'm no techie, but the vbulletin concept is a little outdated. There are much more advanced platforms for online forums....just putting that out there. Some boards are possibly charging more because of their use of more technology. If you're not using ning, hosting videos/pictures/blogs, etc. on an updated platform isn't cheap.

I'm sure hosting and keeping up this site isn't cheap either, but a nice little profit is being made off of this site as well.

 

[ladybuddafly]

Girl, some of us get what you're saying. I've been on here for about a year and a half and I've read TONS of threads. I read a BUNCH of BKT threads, as well as Ayurveda threads and I still don't really "get" either one of these concepts. I mean, I understand the BKT process, but I'll have to read a hundred posts in order to figure out what to order.... I have wanted to try both, but I don't have fifty-million hours to research while I'm in law school and raising a child.

I'm just making a comparison to your example about co-washing. On some other sites, there would simply be an ARTICLE explaining these two concepts, along with a thread discussion. I would be able to ask questions without being told to "do a search" or "google it" or "read the thread."
________________________________________________________

Also, I'm no techie, but the vbulletin concept is a little outdated. There are much more advanced platforms for online forums....just putting that out there. Some boards are possibly charging more because of their use of more technology. If you're not using ning, hosting videos/pictures/blogs, etc. on an updated platform isn't cheap.

I'm sure hosting and keeping up this site isn't cheap either, but a nice little profit is being made off of this site as well.

Lol! Thank you! And can I just say hats off to you for being in law school while being a mom. Wow, I thought grad school was hard while mommying. I can't even imagine trying to manage the rigor of law school and parenting at the same time. BRAVO! You are a special kind of woman Chica.

 

[Kiynwah]

I am more than happy to support black women led-businesses. And if any of you want to go into manufacturing, or open a hair shop, I will support that too. This is our hair and we as a community NEED this!

 

[LoveisYou]

Ok, I don't really mean to start drama by returning to this thread, but I just wanted to add a few more things.

I'm really trying to understand the position of those who feel it is 'wrong' to spin off your own hair care business for pay. It's life, we take what we learn as youth and as adults, branch out and become profitable with the knowledge.

I liken it to going to college and taking what you learn, getting a job with the skill and profiting off it. No?
What if your classmates feel that your boss compensating you is unfair because the company could get someone to do your job cheaper/free and that you're trying to make money off your 'collegiate education'?

LHCF also teaches resourcefulness. You learn things from so many different women and some salons lose out on money because of DIYers. In college, on the side, I acquired skill of design, web developing, and writing code because I know I wanted to start my own business and I was da*ned if I was going to pay some company ridiculous amounts of money to create my own marketing material.

My main point is, as Black women, we should appreciate their ventures, you don't have to donate but just understand their hustle. Businesses are spawned from other similar businesses and each of them provide something the other doesn't. Because you (a general 'you') have gotten ALL the information you need from LHCF doesn't mean others have achieved that.

Can I thank you 10 times? I agree with you 110%. A lot of people are so caught up with emotions and passing judgment that they can't appreciate another's ambition or success if it slaps them in the face.

There are certain groups of people I admire because they are business minded, they have courage, guts and drive. They go out there and dare to claim a piece of the pie. I love it!

How many of us were wondering if it was right or fair when Koreans were taking over the black hair market? If they get there hands on this site, Lord help us.

 

[jamaraa]

As someone who went to graduate school for marketing, I'm going to reiterate something I learned & I'm paraphrasing, but emotions/feelings are separate from business. You hear the comment, "it's just business" and you know that's what separates those with the mindset and those without.

Sure LHCF is making tons of money from subscriptions. I'm also a web developer, and domains can cost as low as $1.99 with unlimited hosting running about 13 bucks a month (Godaddy). I assure you, a handful of subscriptions plus ad revenue, LHCF is not hurting. I have no doubt Bev and folks also have a desire to educate women on hair care, but it for sure isn't the sole reason for LHCF's existence. It's just business.

How do I feel about other members charging for their spin off sites? It makes me proud. Not only are more Black women making money, they are reaching even more people that need the help that don't know about LHCF. I got my friend to subscribe on this site, she has yet to post nor plans to because she says this site is not user friendly; she said she would have preferred more one on one help and a better search engine. Some other sites would have perhaps served her well.

I'm not going to lie, me and my cousins have taken the knowledge we've gained from here as well as other sources to start our own company in Nigeria. Along with our progress pictures, we have found from other websites, info on how to create natural shampoos, conditioners, and even made our own hair moisturizers. We've imported weave hair, trying to get a MAC franchise in Nigeria, and other beauty products. Currently, demand is high and I'm currently building the website, but we feel blessed that our shipments are sold out almost immediately with women and men asking for more. Asides from us wanting to help people in our country that have damaged their hair trying to mimic westernized beauty practices, we're conducting business. It takes time and effort. YOU do the same thing, and you'll understand. Hate it or love it, we're bringing something that's new.

Again, hats off to those who want to offer free advice because they want to be helpful, but we know that everyone is different. People do different things, makes the world go around and it's what sparks innovation.

Congrats to you Nichi for your biz savvy and moxie!

You're right about one-on-one help because people seek that from me on ayurveda and I simply can't give it for a prolonged time. Much of what you're paying for IS someone's time if you're going for these sorts of services. People should remember that time is money and people can't freely give it as others want, even if they want to.

 

[jamaraa]

Ok, I don't really mean to start drama by returning to this thread, but I just wanted to add a few more things.

I'm really trying to understand the position of those who feel it is 'wrong' to spin off your own hair care business for pay. It's life, we take what we learn as youth and as adults, branch out and become profitable with the knowledge.

I liken it to going to college and taking what you learn, getting a job with the skill and profiting off it. No?
What if your classmates feel that your boss compensating you is unfair because the company could get someone to do your job cheaper/free and that you're trying to make money off your 'collegiate education'?

LHCF also teaches resourcefulness. You learn things from so many different women and some salons lose out on money because of DIYers. In college, on the side, I acquired skill of design, web developing, and writing code because I know I wanted to start my own business and I was da*ned if I was going to pay some company ridiculous amounts of money to create my own marketing material.

My main point is, as Black women, we should appreciate their ventures, you don't have to donate but just understand their hustle. Businesses are spawned from other similar businesses and each of them provide something the other doesn't. Because you (a general 'you') have gotten ALL the information you need from LHCF doesn't mean others have achieved that.

Yup...great point about salons/operators. Many salons/beauticians are suffering because women are doing more DIY...much of which they learned from others.

I don't get being angry about a Black woman specifically doing this. Black men and everybody else have always controlled the hair care venue wrt Black women. Until women like Wanakee, Cathy Howse, Lisa Akbhari, Latrice Bonner (sp?) came along...where were Black women in evidence before this?

I distinctly remember Wanakee being one of the 1st w/ a line of prods made by and for BW at a salon level quality...good stuff too. She put in her own money for research and marketing after she left modeling as her next career hustle. She did OK for awhile, but folks used to whine about her $12-18 price range (and then go out and buy $30 at Sebastian ). It was like folks got offended that she wasn't just handing it out. The nerve of this BW charging more than $3!! To make matters worse, her concepts (which she trademarked BTW) have been used by all and sundry w/o proper credit. It's to Wanakee's credit and temperment that she hasn't got medieval on some folks! She has every legal right IF she chooses to.

Then there was Cathy Howse. She started w/ a book at 1st and then developed a prod line (never tried it, but I own her 1st and 2nd ed books). When Cathy started selling her line, folks would post her DIY conditioner online from her 1st ed book and undercut her. She survives inspite of folks still doing this. Wanakee eventually sold her line to Beverly Johnson. If folks wonder why Cathy has a badditude and is resentful of sites like this one...three guesses why. However, even she took backhanders at Wanakee back in the day!

In short, BW have a hard way to go in biz anyway, but it's really sad to see other BW delibrately try to undermine those who try. Wanakee spent her own money on research and advertising, yet some will think that should just come free? No way. How come BW don't have a right to decide what goes on their heads and enrich themselves (keeping the money moving w/in the community) by doing so? Sad state of affairs.

 

[longhairlover]

op I guess i'm bitter too because I have a beef with that especially charging and arm and leg for info that can be found for free online, I have been thinking about starting a site BUT if I were to charge a small fee, it would be a small fee like lhcf's fee.

and yes if people are willing to pay for these "other" sites then so be it I guess but still...........

some certain sites are charging in the hundreds for information that's all over the web, to me that is ridiculous and a rip off.

 

[Irresistible]

op I guess i'm bitter too because I have a beef with that especially charging and arm and leg for info that can be found for free online, I have been thinking about starting a site BUT if I were to charge a small fee, it would be a small fee like lhcf's fee.

and yes if people are willing to pay for these "other" sites then so be it I guess but still...........

some certain sites are charging in the hundreds for information that's all over the web, to me that is ridiculous and a rip off.

Its been said over and over that that specific site is offering something totally different from lhcf

 

[sky_blu]

I didn't see this thread until now BUT I wondered this myself. I guess everybody has to make money but I couldn't see myself paying 90+ a year for the same info I get on here for WAY less. Especially when they're getting the information from here and just putting it on their own site. A little bogus but whatev.

 

[Christa438]

It would be nice for a person to give some credit to a person or org. that taught them something that they really didnt know before, and are teaching to others now. However, I think there is a market for almost everything, nothing new in today's world. This type of knowledge should be shared with others who want it. Now whether someone is willing to pay $6 for the info or $100+, that's their decision/business. As for paying $100+, well those who can... Personally, had lhcf (as amazing as it is) been $100+ subscription, I wouldve just bought a book or went to another site. But Im cheap like that LOL. That's light bill or phone&internet+water bill. Those who can afford to do so, more power to em. In addition, I researched my options for hair help for a while before finding and deciding to join LHCF, that took some time but I look at that time as worth it and as an investment. That may be how those clients look at it as well-- as an investment. I feel like if those clients are not happy, they can use the search button just like I did. (This reminds me of how I do not like that all these convenient stores want to charge me $1.75 for a candy bar that cost 44 cents at Walmart down the street. I learned that if i want a candy bar at a fair price, i simply gotta go to Walmart, and if I do buy the candy bar at the corner store-- it's on one of those days that I feel like splurgin lol.)

 

[Janet']

I never really thought about it...