Let's squash this right now!

[Neith]

Kinky hair needs moisture period.

If you are washing/conditioning 2x or more a week, you're adding the moisture and sealing with the products you're using. If you wash once a week, but use moisturizers then that is just another technique to keep the hair moisturized.

I do agree that it's best to find products with less fillers and more good stuff. Since using aubrey organics I find that I use less product.

 

[gymfreak336]

What daily moisturizer do you use? Since I joined the LHCF a few weeks ago I have started using regular Olive Oil at night and in the morning. Is that good. It does make my hair feel soft and shiny. What are your thoughts?

I have been on a daily washing kick so I really don't use any. I add a touch of leave in and thats its. My hair is fine and gets easily weighed down. When I do use a moisturizer, I use cantu cream or jane carter nourish and shine cream. When I do use it, I use it at night before I cross wrap my hair.

 

[MzOptimistic]

whew oils are like gold diamonds and pearls! I really need to try Castor Oil, I Havent yet and been meaning to. *add that to the list*

been hearing about it too much for too long

I guess the best one is the Jamaican Black Castor oil? Is that true or does it matter?

I love JBCO so much

 

[charmtreese]

What daily moisturizer do you use? Since I joined the LHCF a few weeks ago I have started using regular Olive Oil at night and in the morning. Is that good. It does make my hair feel soft and shiny. What are your thoughts?

Hey Bermudabeauty, I know you asked this question to Gym, however the best cream moisturizer I have found was Jane Carter Hair Nourishing cream. It's all natural, light and does not leave your hair greasy or weighed down. When Im not washing frequently, this is my moisturizer of choice.

From what I have read Olive oil does penetrate the hair shaft and will provide nourishment to your hair. However, depending on how often you wash and condition your hair and if your hair is porous or not will determine if Olive oil alone is sufficient. For example I love Castor oil, it softens my hair like nobody's business however, when I was washing once a week and only applying castor oil as my daily maintenance product my hair started to break...I then realized that even through castor oil acts as a humectant that oil alone for a long period of time is not going to cut it for my dry hair!

 

[Minx]

Good morning, ladies,

I'm too lazy to look, but do we have a glossary of terms?

Cause I think what may be going on here pertaining to the topic of "Oils, do they or do they not "moisturize", is an issue of semantics?

Maybe we are using some words interchangably, or out of context, when another choice of words may be more appropriate?

For example:
We apply oil to the hair, the hair may then feel "soft", so we believe it's moisturized, which we atribute to the oil, (and it very well may be)

But then again, maybe the hair is not technically "moisturized" from the oil in and of itself.......
maybe the oil just gave it that effect?

Maybe in actuality our hair was already "moisturzed"(from water retention, from previous washing, rinsing, deep condition, etc) and the oil provided lubrication or conditioning properties which in turn made the hair feel "soft" which we then in turn call "moisturized"........

Am I making any sense??????


I don't know, but for me, it would help if someone could define:

Moisturize
Condition
Lubricate

and assit me in knowing for sure in which situations, or at what step of the regimen it is appropriate to use each term.

Peace and blessings,
dk

 

[CenteredGirl]

Suscribe and yes, I do feel there are moisturizing properties in oils. I apply oils/butters to my wet DC'd hair and lawd it feels MORE moisturized.

Looking at your hair, I would believe if you told me to put a paper bag on my hair! Absolutely breath taking.

 

[Everything Zen]

Think of it this way. A lot of people in the AA community love their grease and oils but then again so many of us have extremely dry and damaged hair because of the lack of washing (water-moisture). Now most of the products used in our communities are junk products which wouldn't be the best things to put in your hair, but I believe that if people just washed or co-wshed their hair everyday and used those horrible greases and "moisturizers" they would still have healthier hair because those products would retain the moisture in the hair shaft.

My 2 cents-

 

[gymfreak336]

Suscribe and yes, I do feel there are moisturizing properties in oils. I apply oils/butters to my wet DC'd hair and lawd it feels MORE moisturized.
Looking at your hair, I would believe if you told me to put a paper bag on my hair! Absolutely breath taking.

Thats because they are helping seal in the moisture that is already there.

 

[gymfreak336]

Good morning, ladies,

I'm too lazy to look, but do we have a glossary of terms?

Cause I think what may be going on here pertaining to the topic of "Oils, do they or do they not "moisturize", is an issue of semantics?

Maybe we are using some words interchangably, or out of context, when another choice of words may be more appropriate?

For example:
We apply oil to the hair, the hair may then feel "soft", so we believe it's moisturized, which we atribute to the oil, (and it very well may be)

But then again, maybe the hair is not technically "moisturized" from the oil in and of itself.......
maybe the oil just gave it that effect?

Maybe in actuality our hair was already "moisturzed"(from water retention, from previous washing, rinsing, deep condition, etc) and the oil provided lubrication or conditioning properties which in turn made the hair feel "soft" which we then in turn call "moisturized"........

Am I making any sense??????


I don't know, but for me, it would help if someone could define:

Moisturize
Condition
Lubricate

and assit me in knowing for sure in which situations, or at what step of the regimen it is appropriate to use each term.

Peace and blessings,
dk

I understand what you mean.

Moisturize- to hydrate, to add water
Condition- to improve on the current physical condition of the hair.. When I say current condition, I think of these factors
Natural shine- how does my hair without extra product reflect light
Porosity
Elasticity- does my hair have the ability to stretch and recoil
Strength
Moisture level
you can do this buy moisturizing it, strengthening and reinforcing the strand with proteins, glycolipid/ceramides etc through proper shampooing and conditioning as well as daily or weekly applications of leave in conditioning agents like oils and moisturizers.
Lubricate- to improve upon the physical mangability of the hair. Lubrication involves using conditioning agents that make combing and handling easier, like silicones or certain oils that can give"Slip"

 

[anon123]

I think I read somewhere that castor oil acts as a humectant, but I never looked into it.

I just googled. I don't know what this is, but whatever it is, it's confusing:
http://www.global-seven.com/ps04.htm

 

[Neith]

Good morning, ladies,

I'm too lazy to look, but do we have a glossary of terms?

Cause I think what may be going on here pertaining to the topic of "Oils, do they or do they not "moisturize", is an issue of semantics?

Maybe we are using some words interchangably, or out of context, when another choice of words may be more appropriate?

For example:
We apply oil to the hair, the hair may then feel "soft", so we believe it's moisturized, which we atribute to the oil, (and it very well may be)

But then again, maybe the hair is not technically "moisturized" from the oil in and of itself.......
maybe the oil just gave it that effect?

Maybe in actuality our hair was already "moisturzed"(from water retention, from previous washing, rinsing, deep condition, etc) and the oil provided lubrication or conditioning properties which in turn made the hair feel "soft" which we then in turn call "moisturized"........

Am I making any sense??????


I don't know, but for me, it would help if someone could define:

Moisturize
Condition
Lubricate

and assit me in knowing for sure in which situations, or at what step of the regimen it is appropriate to use each term.

Peace and blessings,
dk

Moisturize - adding moisture to the hair
Condition - making the hair softer
Lubricate - making the hair smooth and more slippery

That's how I think of it.

A good DC will do all three. A good leave-in will do all three. Oil can't moisturize (to my knowledge - I have to do some research on humectant oils that I've seen mention in this thread)

It is confusing because some of the words are used interchangeably and usually a product will do all of these things at once.



Think of it this way... you just clarified your hair and airdried it with no product.

If you throw water in it, it'll be more moist, but will not be soft or lubricated when it dries.

If you throw oil on it, it'll be a little softer and a lot more lubricated (easier to comb)... but it'll get dry eventually.

If you put in a conditioner, it'll get conditioned and be able to dry, but still have water content, for a longer amount of time with just oil.

 

[Supergirl]

Iris,

You're right hun--the molecular weight of some oils is such that they are able to penetrate the shaft. Some oils DO indeed moisturize.

 

[Christa438]

Certain oils and greases seem to moisturize. I have a friend who all she does is grease or oil her scalp/hair and it will grow but she likes to wear her hair short so she always cuts it but still I think it would grow long if she continued greasing and oiling but stopped perming every month and coloring every other month. My friend does have dandruff sometimes though and I think that if her hair were really more on the moist side than it is on the dry side, dandruff would not be a problem. idk

For me, grease and oil do not moisturize--at least most dont. Growing up my mama and I used so many different oils and greases/hairdresses on my head: I could grease/oil my hair and walk outside and 1-2 hours later if I rub a finger through my scalp too hard, It feels like Im about to start a fire. I need something water-based, my scalp definitely prefers liquidy to creamy though; which is why I use a leave-in spray. since lhcf, dry hair hasn't been a problem and my hair is growing so much better. I can touch my scalp and hair at Night and it still feels moisturized.

 

[Lavendar]

Some oils definitely penetrate the hair. I will leave the specifics to the chemical people, but I know the shikakai oil from Hairveda penetrates my hair so well it seems to become part of my hair. My hair gets shiny and glossy without any other moisturizer underneath (okay besides the water in the hair shaft). DH put his hand in my hair thinking he would pull back a hand full of oil and was really puzzled when his hand was dry. He couldn't believe my hair looked "oily" but wasn't. BTW, the shikakai oil base is castor oil.

 

[LadyKaypnyc]

...............Just being nosy

 

[Minx]

Thanks Neith and gymfreak, that's what I needed to know!


blessings,
dk

 

[Str8~Curly]

Yup, it’s that exactly. Just because oil can penetrate doesn’t mean it’s moisturizing. The definition of moisture is not something that can penetrate the hair shaft.
By scientific definition, moisture generally = water. It is wetness.
There is no oil that is moisturizing. It’s either sealing moisture in or making the hair feel soft, lubricated or whatever else.

Thats because they are helping seal in the moisture that is already there.

 

[Blessed_Angel]

I don't agree. No oil moisturizes.

Just because some (many naturals ones actually) can penetrate the hair shaft doesn't mean that they actually moisturize.

However, natural oils that penetrate DO condition (soften the hair). They do this best when applied to WET or DAMP hair.

Think of it this way...

If you have a bowl of coconut oil and you put a lock of DRY hair in in the bowl and take it out... would it be moisturized? Not just softer or shinier, but having real moisture (h2O) in it?

But if you took wet hair and dipped it in the oil, it would be moisturized and stay moist and soft longer.

You always need MOISTURE to MOISTurize.

Great explanation! I agree. I've tried CO and EVOO on my hair, and neither provided moisture for me. Whether I sealed or not. I guess everyone's hair is different in "taking" in the oils.

 

[Str8~Curly]

EVOO actually dries my hair out. Coconut oil doesn't just sit on top of my strands. It actually penetrates but still dries my hair out. I need H2O (moisture).

Great explanation! I agree. I've tried CO and EVOO on my hair, and neither provided moisture for me. Whether I sealed or not. I guess everyone's hair is different in "taking" in the oils.

 

[Irresistible]

Suscribe and yes, I do feel there are moisturizing properties in oils. I apply oils/butters to my wet DC'd hair and lawd it feels MORE moisturized.

Looking at your hair, I would believe if you told me to put a paper bag on my hair! Absolutely breath taking.

u crack me up girl!

Thank you! Now go oil you hair! no paper bags

 

[Irresistible]

Iris,

You're right hun--the molecular weight of some oils is such that they are able to penetrate the shaft. Some oils DO indeed moisturize.

YAY! I'M NOT CRAZY!

I been saying this for so long! it always bothered me when I heard it said over and over 'Oils dont moisturize' when my hair was telling me different all along!

all I needed was your word! thats like Bible to me! I been around here so I know, yup you know what your talkin about!

 

[cieramichele]

Water = moisture
Oils = seal
Oils give the moisturized feel.

JMO

 

[Irresistible]

Great explanation! I agree. I've tried CO and EVOO on my hair, and neither provided moisture for me. Whether I sealed or not. I guess everyone's hair is different in "taking" in the oils.

Thats probably true too!

I think after going round and round before about this it was concluded that some people's hair likes water, and some people's hair likes oil. either water hair or oil hair, but both still needing some level of both, but the hair deciding which one it needs/likes more

I have oil hair but that is not to say I dont need water because I do , but for my hair daily water would be big trouble , unlike for some. even if I followed it up with oil daily water would kill my hair! its drying for me and not moisturizing at all ,in fact it removes the moisture and I have to add it back. So without products/oils water would be in itself a very POOR moisturizer, so its hard for me to see it as such. So I think there is a balance our hair needs and we just have to find out just what it is for our own unique heads of hair!

just didnt agree with the across the board blanket statement thats being said like the accepted norm now that 'OILS DONT MOISTURIZE'

I just dont believe its a totally accurate statement

 

[Maynard]

Iris...why is you siggy HUGE? Is that on purpose? Is there any way that you can shrink them? TIA

 

[Irresistible]

i can say the oil molecules are to big that's why it doesnt penetrate but i know folks are still going to ? y! so here's a post from sistaslick...she thoroughly explained it so read if ya wanna know....

Our hair naturally contains moisture, but because our hair is also naturally porous, keeping the moisture inside is a difficult task. Sources of outside moisture, or external moisture supplementation is a must for black hair. Water molecules and moisture from these supplemental moisturizing products easily passes into the hair shaft, but they pass out just as easily. The moisture you apply needs to held in by something. Oil.
A light coating of oil on top will help seal the moisture inside. Oils are made of large molecules. These molecules are too large to absorbed by the hair strand. Applying oils to the hair and scalp will coat them and trap moisture that is inside on the inside and moisture that is outside on the outside. The key is to lock in the moisture within the strands with your oil. If you use oils without a moisturizer or before one, the oil will seal the moisture out of the hair strand and lead to eventual dryness. This technique of moisturizing and sealing has really been helpful to me and is a resonating hallmark of my regimen. Moisturizing success is all in the order in which you apply your products.

Perhaps a words like "nourish" would be better than moisturize. If I had a nickel for every time someone asked me to recommend a good oil that moisturizes, I would be rich! Oil alone will not and cannot moisturize within the hair shaft. An oil can only coat the outside of the strand, and give it shine- the illusion of moisture. Again, the molecules that make oil are much too large to penetrate. Oil molecules are "hydro-phobic" which means they repel and do not readily mix with water. Remember, if you apply an oil product to your hair before you have added a moisturizing product, you have created a seal on your hair strand that water and moisture cannot penetrate.

i hth!

I think nourish is a good word too, but if its not absorbing and my hair seems to litteraly drink it I dont get where its going once its gone! I still think some oils absorb, it does on my hair for sure!

 

[Irresistible]

Iris...why is you siggy HUGE? Is that on purpose? Is there any way that you can shrink them? TIA

no I dont know how to size them, I will just remove one now!

 

[Irresistible]

Think of it this way. A lot of people in the AA community love their grease and oils but then again so many of us have extremely dry and damaged hair because of the lack of washing (water-moisture). Now most of the products used in our communities are junk products which wouldn't be the best things to put in your hair, but I believe that if people just washed or co-wshed their hair everyday and used those horrible greases and "moisturizers" they would still have healthier hair because those products would retain the moisture in the hair shaft.

My 2 cents-

I wouldnt have any hair left on my head

water is killer for me! very drying, although its necessary , by itself its does nothing for moisture for me, water alone would have my hair brittle and snapping off

So I really do think we have a difference in hair types with this oil and water thing or something

 

[Irresistible]

Wow, this thread is so timely for me cuz I have just been trying to google “hair oils” and such to try and figure out, ummm, hair oils. So far, found this abstract of an article (I can’t find the whole thing, but I’ll keep looking): http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.0142-5463.2005.00278_3.x that suggests polyunsaturated oils do not penetrate or do so sparingly because of their large molecules, but monounsaturated oils do readily penetrate hair because they have more compact (smaller) molecular structure. Soooooooo, I’ve come to the following tentative conclusions:

1. all oils “lubricate” – that is they reduce friction by providing a smooth film as a covering over parts that move against each other. However, hair oils can be categorized two ways:

2. penetrating oils: the kind that actually “absorbs” into the hair or skin and I believe these are the more “moisturizing” oils, especially when used on WET hair because they emulsify with the water and then penetrate. Some mono/penetrating oils are: castor, jojoba, emu, olive, rapeseed, hazelnut, almond, avocado, sesame, etc. (please correct and/or add to this list)

3. sealing oils: the kind that create “barrier” on top of the hair or skin, sealing things in or out. So, maybe these oils will weigh wet hair down more because doesn’t penetrate inside with the water, but rather sits on top going nowhere. I think they may work well when used very sparingly on DRY hair. Some poly/sealing oils are: sunflower, safflower, corn (please correct and/or add to this list)

4. Popular hair oils I did not find a definitive answer: coconut, palm oil, palm kernel nut oil = these are “saturated” fatty oils so can’t figure out where they fit in the penetrating vs. sealing categories

Hmmmm, in light of Sisterslick’s explanation, perhaps should be looking at the SIZE of the oil molecules and not whether it is mono or poly? IDK . . . .

This is interesting!

I dont know ya'll but my hair has been telling me for a long time now that it likes to drink oil! and I DO think it literally does!

I think there is a point of 'saturation' and once your hair has reached that nothing will absorb, I think if you apply oil and its not 'saturated' and its a kind that can/will absorb, I think it will

see I have always done it the opposite of what everybody is doing now. I put oil on FIRST, then add conditioners/products and such

so I'm sealing in the oil

 

[Irresistible]

I agree, that and the fact that people use too much of it improperly. I also think that if people spent more time using a quality deep conditioner, they would need less oil and moisturizers afterwards. If you need moisturizer right after washing and conditioning, you need to change conditioners.

I have yet to find a conditioner that did that for me!

maybe some people need less conditioning? Because I have never acheived such an optimal conditioned state that I still dont need other help

 

[Irresistible]

Water = moisture
Oils = seal
Oils give the moisturized feel.

JMO

This could be too!

I do think some oils absorb! whether or not the correct word is 'moisturizing' they are certainly doing something, nourishing or whatever.....

I just never felt the moisture with water, I only do weekly rinsing the rest of the time my hair could totally live off of oils. Whether it just 'feels' moisturized or it actually technically is , I dunno.

But the funny thing is , that for years I have been doing the opposite and literally sealing in oils!

Ive done oil first always