Pleeeeeeease stop using NTM silk touch leave-in

[brooklyngal73]

So should people stop using soap because it has lye?

Taken from sistaslick's post ---> "Much of the soap used today is actually derived from NaOH, but when it mixes with oils and water (through a process called saponification) it is no longer truly lye. It is a “waxy ,fatty substance” or “soap” and it acts as an excellent, effective non-drying cleanser. In the NTM, its probably acting in a waxy capacity along with the other shaft coating smoothers (silicones) all up and through that product."

The level of lye in NTM is so small, it's not even a consideration. Sylver2's hair is the bomb, and she uses NTM (exclusively, I think).

Don't shy away from potentially great products because of the very small amounts of lye it might have in them.

I don't have much experience in chemistry, but do know that hydroxides are really strong bases. NaOH, CaOH, etc. And, NaOH + H2O <> Na+ + OH- + H20. This basically beans that when NaOH is added to water H2O, it will ionize or dissociate into sodium and the base hydroxide. So, maybe it isn't so bad, but still be careful because Hydroxides have the ability to break disulfide linkages, which is what our hair is made up of. Plus, strong hydroxide bases such as this one have the potential to denature, or destroy polypeptide linkages which are the repeating amino acid patterns our hair is made up of! It's better to be safe then sorry. Oh and, I don't use CON, but now that I know that, I certainly won't be, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Mocha Princess]

If ya'll insist that it's ok, then I guess. But I won't take any chances because no one knows for sure how Neutrogena is chemically putting the product together, and there are plenty of other chemicals that can achieve the same or comparable results as the NaOH in the NTM that we can actually rely on to not have any long-term ill effects. In addition, who knows if when they're putting the product together if they have African-American chemically relaxed hair in mind. Some products may be tailored to work better with white hair, than black chemically relaxed hair. Plus, I barely ever see products contain NaOH in the ingredients which leads me to question the reason it's used in the ingredients. I speculate that it may assist in smoothing and leaving hair straighter with a silky after touch, in which case the NaOH may be actively working on smoothing your hair. Key word, "actively." I definitely could see a caucasion product line using a mild amount of NaOH to smooth the frizzies on that type of hair which would more than likely be ok for them, but not for us though! Like I said, I don't know what they use it for, but who knows.

 

[Mocha Princess]

Another question, how long has the NTM line been out? Have you used it for years yet, or just some amount of months? Didn't this line just recently emerge? Isn't it too soon to know if it truly is ok to use on your hair? As far as soap goes, I don't use it on my hair, I use it on my skin. I also have lotions that have sodium hydroxide in em and I don't fret because I know it for certain won't be in my hair. Soap is fine to use on your body but soap on your hair ummmmm? So I wasn't tryin to say Lye is bad all together, but what's the point of going through so much effort to get rid of Lye after a relaxer, but then turn around and basically put maybe not a lot, but even a little back in? That's pointless unless however Sistaslick is correct in saying that the Lye in NTM is being neutralized by the other neighboring chemicals in the product. In that case, I would conclude that it would be fine to use.

 

[ashiah]

Thank You Sistaslick for breaking it down! But is still dried my hair out though

ElleB, you're my hair twin. I hated NTM, too. It kept my hair moisturized for about two seconds and then dried up like a prune.

 

[sylver2]

Another question, how long has the NTM line been out? Have you used it for years yet, or just some amount of months? Didn't this line just recently emerge? Isn't it too soon to know if it truly is ok to use on your hair? As far as soap goes, I don't use it on my hair, I use it on my skin. I also have lotions that have sodium hydroxide in em and I don't fret because I know it for certain won't be in my hair. Soap is fine to use on your body but soap on your hair ummmmm? So I wasn't tryin to say Lye is bad all together, but what's the point of going through so much effort to get rid of Lye after a relaxer, but then turn around and basically put maybe not a lot, but even a little back in? That's pointless unless however Sistaslick is correct in saying that the Lye in NTM is being neutralized by the other neighboring chemicals in the product. In that case, I would conclude that it would be fine to use.

I can't speak for others, I can only speak for myself and my hair.
I love the entire line of NTM and have no mishaps or guesses about it.
I have been using it since 2004. The Silk touch, the DDC, the serum, the shampoo, the frizz cream.
I mean Neutrogena is not some new company that just popped up.
There are so many products that are used 24/7 that can easily be debated.
We can go thru the whole entire drugstore and probably everything short of a 100% all natural product, would have some questionable ingredient in it.

 

[Sistaslick]

Thank You Sistaslick for breaking it down! But is still dried my hair out though

I'm telling you, its probably the high level of cones your hair didn't like. Those big juicy cones can cause some users dryness issues.

@mocha_-p: I don't know how long NTM has been out, but CON has been out for years and is loved by relaxed and natural alike. I've used CON successfully for over 2 years now and I am texlaxed as all get out. We all know that relaxing is an irreversible process so daily/weekly use of a lye product (if the lye were significant) would produce a cumulative straight result overtime. Last time I checked, most of the natural CON/silk touch users aren't experiencing straightened hair and relaxed CON/silk touch users are still feeling the need to relax.

I'm sure the neutragena product chemists didn't create this product and slap it on the shelf. (At least I hope not anyway ) Products have to be tested and approved before they hit the shelves, granted the restrictions probably aren't all that stringent. Placing certain chemicals in a product above certain amounts requires a warning label. Lye is one of those ingredients.

Like the other posters said, the lye is represented in small quantities in this product and others that aren't straighteners. It is second to last in the NTM behind the parabens which occur in most product formulations at less than 1%. MP, think of it this way . . . lets use sugar. If you take one grain of sugar and place it in a gallon of water-- would you be able to detect the sugar? Would the water taste sweet to you? Nope! Though the grain of sugar is unchanged and has maintained all of its sugary properties, its concentration prevents it from doing what it does best . . . tasting sweet to you. This is the NaOH in the NTM.

Now imagine dumping 8 cups of sugar in a gallon of water. The sugar would stand out and it would be able to display its sweet properties. This is the NaOH present in lye based relaxers.

The same thing happens with our moisture and protein based products. You can have a protein second after water in a conditioner and that would probably be a moderate to heavy level protein treatment. You can have the same protein present 20th in the list with the same ingredients and the product be moisturizing as ever. The protein is still protein--- but the formula difference either allows or doesn't allow each ingredient to display its natural tendencies. In the case of neutragena, we can infer that the level of lye in the formula is low simply from reading the ingredient list and noting its placement. If something is right behind a paraben, you might as well not even count it. If its behind your water or close to it, then yeah there is a problem. If I were afraid of anything it would be the shaft coating cones and the cancer causing parabens.

I'm longwinded y'all, sawry.

 

[secretdiamond]

I think you may have it backwards. If you are so worried about lye on your hair, I think it's the RELAXER you should worry about and not the NTM. Why put lye on your hair at all then? Going natural (hair & hair products) will completely alleviate this worry. I promise you. j/k

ETA: But thanks for wanting to warn us. That's what this board is about-- helping each other.

 

[Sistaslick]

I also have lotions that have sodium hydroxide in em and I don't fret because I know it for certain won't be in my hair.

I think I'd probably have a greater fear of the lye penetrating the live skin layers and entering my bloodstream, than it sitting on my dead hair in any concentration.

eta:

Soap is fine to use on your body but soap on your hair ummmmm?

If I am not mistaken, there are actually soaps that can be used on your hair without ill effects. Castille and black soap are some that a few ladies use here on the forum. These aren't your Irish Spring/Dial/Zest type detergent soaps, but a natural, gentler kind.

 

[MzOptimistic]

I can't speak for others, I can only speak for myself and my hair.
I love the entire line of NTM and have no mishaps or guesses about it.
I have been using it since 2004. The Silk touch, the DDC, the serum, the shampoo, the frizz cream.
I mean Neutrogena is not some new company that just popped up.
There are so many products that are used 24/7 that can easily be debated.
We can go thru the whole entire drugstore and probably everything short of a 100% all natural product, would have some questionable ingredient in it.

Ditto

 

[Mocha Princess]

Thanks for all of the insight guys, I appreciate your input on this issue. I fought with myself over it for so long because I really want to try it, but don't have the guts to give it a chance because even with all of this being said, I still don't feel comfortable using it but that's ok though. Plus, I've finally got a healthy head of hair after so many set backs in the past, that I don't want to even play around with it. As far as what secretdiamond said, yeah, I guess I'm not tryin to say that I won't use lye altogether because obviously it's needed to relax my hair. However, the lye in the relaxer will be neutralized right away so that's a whole different story as opposed to applying it as a daily maintenance product so I'll have to disagree with you on that note. When I mentioned soap, I meant traditional soaps that contain harsh dergents + lye, not specialty ones. Maybe I'm overly cautious of products that contain ingredients like this one because I've seriously had my hair break out from the root using certain products in my hair. For instance, approximately 6 months ago I was using Dr. Miracles grease in my hair and after a while, started to notice serious shedding that eventually led to baldness on my back left and right side! All other areas were breaking out also, but not as badly as those two sides. I was literally crushed! It was a learning experience for me that taught me to be leary of certain ingredients in products and to use with caution. Apparently, the Dr. Miracle stuff had some thermalceutical complex in it that just zapped my hair right from the root. It was a disheartening experience. So as far as this NTM and CON thing, I think I'll just go with my gut on this one!

 

[NeeSee]

Thanks for the warning girl. Some people don't mind but I personally have a problem using products other that relaxers that contain Sodium Hydroxide. That's one of the reason I don't use CON.

 

[caribeandiva]

hmm thanks for posting this. i bought the NTM once and used it up. i didn't like the way my hair felt afterwards so i won't be buying it again. as for the shampoo and conditioner, i'm thinking of trying them.

 

[Ebonygurl00]

I'm telling you, its probably the high level of cones your hair didn't like. Those big juicy cones can cause some users dryness issues.

@mocha_-p: I don't know how long NTM has been out, but CON has been out for years and is loved by relaxed and natural alike. I've used CON successfully for over 2 years now and I am texlaxed as all get out. We all know that relaxing is an irreversible process so daily/weekly use of a lye product (if the lye were significant) would produce a cumulative straight result overtime. Last time I checked, most of the natural CON/silk touch users aren't experiencing straightened hair and relaxed CON/silk touch users are still feeling the need to relax.

I'm sure the neutragena product chemists didn't create this product and slap it on the shelf. (At least I hope not anyway ) Products have to be tested and approved before they hit the shelves, granted the restrictions probably aren't all that stringent. Placing certain chemicals in a product above certain amounts requires a warning label. Lye is one of those ingredients.

Like the other posters said, the lye is represented in small quantities in this product and others that aren't straighteners. It is second to last in the NTM behind the parabens which occur in most product formulations at less than 1%. MP, think of it this way . . . lets use sugar. If you take one grain of sugar and place it in a gallon of water-- would you be able to detect the sugar? Would the water taste sweet to you? Nope! Though the grain of sugar is unchanged and has maintained all of its sugary properties, its concentration prevents it from doing what it does best . . . tasting sweet to you. This is the NaOH in the NTM.

Now imagine dumping 8 cups of sugar in a gallon of water. The sugar would stand out and it would be able to display its sweet properties. This is the NaOH present in lye based relaxers.

The same thing happens with our moisture and protein based products. You can have a protein second after water in a conditioner and that would probably be a moderate to heavy level protein treatment. You can have the same protein present 20th in the list with the same ingredients and the product be moisturizing as ever. The protein is still protein--- but the formula difference either allows or doesn't allow each ingredient to display its natural tendencies. In the case of neutragena, we can infer that the level of lye in the formula is low simply from reading the ingredient list and noting its placement. If something is right behind a paraben, you might as well not even count it. If its behind your water or close to it, then yeah there is a problem. If I were afraid of anything it would be the shaft coating cones and the cancer causing parabens.

I'm longwinded y'all, sawry.

Dang, thanks! I feel so educated now. I loved the example with sugar.

 

[Sistaslick]

Thanks for all of the insight guys, I appreciate your input on this issue. I fought with myself over it for so long because I really want to try it, but don't have the guts to give it a chance because even with all of this being said, I still don't feel comfortable using it but that's ok though. Plus, I've finally got a healthy head of hair after so many set backs in the past, that I don't want to even play around with it. As far as what secretdiamond said, yeah, I guess I'm not tryin to say that I won't use lye altogether because obviously it's needed to relax my hair. However, the lye in the relaxer will be neutralized right away so that's a whole different story as opposed to applying it as a daily maintenance product so I'll have to disagree with you on that note. When I mentioned soap, I meant traditional soaps that contain harsh dergents + lye, not specialty ones. Maybe I'm overly cautious of products that contain ingredients like this one because I've seriously had my hair break out from the root using certain products in my hair. For instance, approximately 6 months ago I was using Dr. Miracles grease in my hair and after a while, started to notice serious shedding that eventually led to baldness on my back left and right side! All other areas were breaking out also, but not as badly as those two sides. I was literally crushed! It was a learning experience for me that taught me to be leary of certain ingredients in products and to use with caution. Apparently, the Dr. Miracle stuff had some thermalceutical complex in it that just zapped my hair right from the root. It was a disheartening experience. So as far as this NTM and CON thing, I think I'll just go with my gut on this one!

Do what makes you feel best girl! We all have draw the line somewhere which is why I don't do SLS. mineral oil, petrolatum, or heavy cones . . . and if I could find good cost effective substitutes for my paraben filled products I wouldn't do them either! Lye isn't necessarily a common ingredient so avoiding these types of products should be really easy for you if thats what you choose to do. There isn't a reason for anyone to be scared though.


well. . . except maybe scared about those hormone afflicting/cancer-causing parabens stuffed into EVERYTHING. Now thats scary.

 

[plove]

I'm not a PJ but from what a lot of y'll post about products I don't want to become a PJ.

 

[RainbowCurls]

Thanks for the warning girl. Some people don't mind but I personally have a problem using products other that relaxers that contain Sodium Hydroxide. That's one of the reason I don't use CON.

What problems do you have with them? Dryness? Straightening? Breakage...?

I'm been trying to make up my mind whether or not to use products that contain sodium hydroxide.

 

[pink_n_green_iz_me]

I use it and I love it. I haven't had any problems so far. But good lookin out

 

[KhandiB]

Man, My hair wouldnt be so under processed if it had the same effect as a relaxers Sodium Hydroxide

Sometimes I think we really scare ourselves silly..

 

[MizaniMami]

Man, My hair wouldnt be so under processed if it had the same effect as a relaxers Sodium Hydroxide

Sometimes I think we really scare ourselves silly..[/quote]

I agree, next there will be a "PLEASE DON"T USE WATER!" post.

Okay, sorry yall, I had to poke fun at it. No pun intended.

 

[QUINN]

I use it and I love it. I haven't had any problems so far. But good lookin out

Same here. Good lookin' out, but my hair would not thrive without it.

 

[luvlonghair]

hmm thanks for posting this. i bought the NTM once and used it up. i didn't like the way my hair felt afterwards so i won't be buying it again. as for the shampoo and conditioner, i'm thinking of trying them.

I did too! when I used it, it had dried my hair out and tangled it in knots . I only used it that one time and gave it away. Dang, no wonder I get broke. PJism!!!!

 

[Saida]

I love it, lets just grow some hair

 

[Dogmd]

I love this product.. It is one of the only products that I use as a leave in on a daily basis. Works well for my hair. I too looked at all of the ingredients... but as the other ladies posted... I think this product was added to even out the PH of this moisturizer as well!!

 

[Sweet C]

NaOH is a strong base, but it is all in how it is used as to how it can affect your hair. Like others have said, NaOH is used in a variety of different products we use everyday, the main key is concentration and purpose. For a relaxer, it is a primary ingredient at a higher concentration. For something like NTM, it is probably either at a very low concentration or at a high concentration used to change the pH in the solution. With all the ingredients listed on the bottle, I will probably venture to say it is used as the latter.

In chemistry, you have certain ingredients mixed together, it can produce a buffer, which is quite simply a mixture that resists changes to pH. We know that hair products are made towards at certain pH level to provide certain benefits. For example, when you get a perm, your neutralizing shampoo, is a shampoo with an extremely low pH, in order to neutralize or stop the relaxing process. However, regular shampoos have a pH closer to 5 (b/t 4.5 and 5.5), b/c that is the natural pH of your skin and hair.

Bottom line is that most hair products have in some way. Even the natural shampoos use saponified oils that we crave (almond oil, jojoba, olive, etc.), which essentially is the oil being pre-treated with NaOH or KOH. The question is not really whether it has it, but when in the mixing process is it put in. For products that don't have it listed, they might saponified oils to adjust the pH along with or taking other methods to ensure a fairly stable pH.

 

[Wishin4BSL]

I LOVE NTM! I use it twice a day--sometimes three times--and I haven't had any problems. In fact, it saved my hair from being all hard and dry when I'm 4+ weeks post. And my last relaxer was actually slightly texlaxed. I like it though. I can't let it go! I use this and Africa's Best Herbal Oil for sealing and I have the silkiest most moisturized hair ever!

 

[Mocha Princess]

Well, if you feel comfortable using products with lye in it, then more power to ya. LOL I just know I won't be using that "Lye touch leave-in!" I like to be safe than sorry, as my hair is nothing to toy with. I prefer my hair to be on my head, NOT IN MY HAND! JK

 

[sylver2]

Well, if you feel comfortable using products with lye in it, then more power to ya. LOL I just know I won't be using that "Lye touch leave-in!" I like to be safe than sorry, as my hair is nothing to toy with. I prefer my hair to be on my head, NOT IN MY HAND! JK

You are relaxed right? Why don't u just go natural. It will definately be much healthier for your hair. No chemicals, no lye just all natural. If u do, there are so many beautiful heads of hair here with natural albums that are very helpful

 

[Saida]

Mocha Pirncess why do you use a relaxer i thought people from Ahghanistan had straight hair?? and your a type 1 also I just dont understand

 

[Honi]

Interesting. I've never had a problem with it but I agree with all the chemistry lingo. It's just for pH purposes only. The final product definitely does not have a pH of 12, 13 or 14 like a relaxer and I can probably guess that the NaOH is somehow inactivated or neutralized by all the other stuff that's in there.

 

[Mocha Princess]

Hey ladies. Who got the impression I was from Afghanistan and that I'm a type 1? I'm actually a fine 4b type and I don't mind using a lye relaxer, just not lye maintenance products for everyday use. I always thought that was a big no no, and quite risky. As I stated prior, the lye may be at an extremely low concentration in these products, but does anyone know this to be certain though? Everyone is just speculating as to the concentration of lye without knowing for sure. And yes, it would be great to have manageable hair without the use of chemicals which I'm sure you all agree as well. But just like you, I feel inclined to relax my hair with a lye relaxer, but the only difference is that I don't feel comfortable using everyday products that contain it. Trust me if I felt I could handle the pressure of my natural 4b hair without the use of chemicals, I would definetely have opted to stay natural. I've had my hair fall out from the root using products, yes I said "products." I was very surprised myself as I thought this kind of breakage was only possible from relaxer mishapses. Apparently I was wrong, and only want to warn people to be careful. I probably shouldn't have told you guys to stop using it altogether b/c everyone is different, and who am I to know for sure b/c I didn't put any of these products together. So I apologize to whoever I offended. I never intended to cause NTM contraversey or anything; just wanted you all to know that I was concerned about the lye element contained in the product.