Relaxed vs. Natural: Stop the Beef

[Sarafina]

Hey ladies,

I've noticed a lot of naturals feel they are unfairly labeled as militant & a lot of relaxed folks feel that naturals preach at them. I think it would be helpful if there was some kind of resolution to this. We are all grown here and should be able to get past this.

I started a thread a while back and it seemed like some relaxed folk avoided the thread or didn't respond to it because of potential drama. Today, some naturals posted that they feel like relaxed heads are giving posts about natural hair low ratings.

Folks shouldn't be avoiding giving their opinion as relaxed or naturals because we all have something to give. We all, relaxed, natural, or texturzied are on LHCF to grow long and/or healthy hair and people with-holding their thoughts is counter productive.

Does anyone have ideas on how to make the dialogue among all of us (texturized, natural, and relaxed) better?

I'll start:
It seems like folk get upset when there is unsolicited advice about whether to relax or go natural. So, its' probably better not to give advice unless you are asked. Also, don't assume someone is being ideological unless they clearly say they are.

 

[DelightfulFlame]

I personally think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and have a right to voice that opinion.

I think that there really isn't a beef...some people are just more sensitive than others.

I think it is unrealistic to expect everyone in a thread to agree or sing kum-ba-ya.

I was natural...now I'm back to a relaxer. There is talk about mindsets...but the reality is that you don't know a person's mindset. I loved my natural hair. I love my hair now. Being around natural folks taught me that everyone natural is not the same. Some folks act like gatekeepers of all things nappy. They are not. Alot of assumptions are made that are not true. There are some ignorant nappy headed folks just like there are ignorant relaxed, texturized, white, black, chinese, etc.

To each his own. Do you. Learn. Love. Live.

 

[PaperClip]

I appreciate the intent of your post, but I sense that this is a circular/cyclical topic.... Clearly, each person brings their own set of values, beliefs, and preferences about hair, and plenty have the capacity to filter personal preferences while participating in conversations....

To be honest, I don't know what the best option would be to stop the beef. One suggestion (on the Q&A Board) was to have separate forums, but in addition to the increase in maintenance for the moderators, one prevailing reason to keep the hair convo in one place was because of the friendliness of the board. Sometimes it's not always friendly because sentiments can get misinterpreted, which is one downside of message boards: you don't get to "hear" the full tone of the speaker/writer.

Politics and conflict is not a bad thing because (hopefully) out of it
comes information and insight toward the goal of long hair.My humble response to the question about how to improve dialogue would be this: count down from 10 before pressing the "submit reply" button to make sure that the "tone" of a message/response is at least civil and non-accusatory.

Peace.

 

[Parvathi]

I personally think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and have a right to voice that opinion.

I think that there really isn't a beef...some people are just more sensitive than others.

I think it is unrealistic to expect everyone in a thread to agree or sing kum-ba-ya.

Precisely.

 

[Enchantmt]

There is no beef. On LHCF for the most part, everyone knows and understands their decisions will be respected and supported. We have had ladies go natural and then back to relaxing or texturizing when they wanted a change or couldnt handle it. When they try to go natural again, or decided to relax again, they still get the same amount of support

Hair is a personal issues, there is a lot of emotions tied to it. If it werent we wouldnt feel so bad when it looks bad or feel great when it looks great. I've noticed that most people dont respond to a thread they think may be divisive on the board, because people tend to bring in a lot of views and experiences from outside LHCF and drama starts. I'm not saying those views arent valid, I've had my share of negative experiences, tho mostly family in nature. I'm just saying that you NORMALLY wont get that experience from the members here. I have never been made to feel that being natural is militant on LHCF, this forum is the REASON I was able to go natural. Not saying that hasnt been anyone elses experience, but it hasnt been mine.

I have seen people make a lifestyle change, such as going natural, removing parabens, eating organic, stopping smoking etc and think that their new found life changing revelation is for everyone. They give advice that comes across as commands out of good intentions and excitement for their new knowledge, but not everyone is ready , willing or interested in making these types of changes. I'm natural, I cut out parabens everychance I get. That wont stop me from recommending a product that I've used in the past that I know works well to someone who isnt cutting that out of their program. I will still relax my nieces or sister's hair if they ask me.

We dont need to draw attention to every post that gets two stars. Just rate it more if you feel it is warranted. I dont read based on stars tho, and I dont know how much stock others put in them.

 

[Sarafina]

I personally think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and have a right to voice that opinion.

I think that there really isn't a beef...some people are just more sensitive than others.

I think it is unrealistic to expect everyone in a thread to agree or sing kum-ba-ya.

I was natural...now I'm back to a relaxer. There is talk about mindsets...but the reality is that you don't know a person's mindset. I loved my natural hair. I love my hair now. Being around natural folks taught me that everyone natural is not the same. Some folks act like gatekeepers of all things nappy. They are not. Alot of assumptions are made that are not true. There are some ignorant nappy headed folks just like there are ignorant relaxed, texturized, white, black, chinese, etc.

To each his own. Do you. Learn. Love. Live.

Mos. def.

I agree with you. But I think its' still good for us to think about. Maybe some people will get a different perspective just from hearing what others have to say about it.

On the use of the word beef: just an attn grabber because I don't think its' that deep. I just thought it would be good to talk about.

 

[alibi]

I tend to disagree with your opinion on unsolicited advice. Sometimes people are afraid to ask a question, or they are just lurking, or wouldn't have even thought of a particular subject if it hadn't been brought up by someone else. This is a HAIR BOARD, so I think advice of any kind should be welcomed and encouraged! If someone doesn't like the advice given or the topic being discussed, leave the thread and don't comment. I noticed that there was a ratings discussion in CG's thread as well, but I never rate threads or pay attention to them anyways, so that really doesn't matter to me. If the advice is helpful, I take it and move on. If there are folks rating these types of threads badly, I think it's b/c they probably ASSUME that it's the same old natural vs. relaxed debate and rate it without reading the entire thread. I think CG's thread was positive, and even contained some constructive criticism of her original post without getting nasty. The whole relaxed/natural thing is always gonna be a touchy subject, but if everyone remembers that you can do what you want to do with YOUR hair, then there's really no need for debate. I think this topic flares up when you have ppl with deep seeded issues that they haven't dealt with on BOTH SIDES. This response is in no way meant to offend the OP, but I just think that we all need to remember that our real purpose on this forum is to grow long, healthy hair, whether it's relaxed, natural, or anywhere in between.

 

[Enchantmt]

Well said, Ayanapooh!

 

[Sarafina]

I tend to disagree with your opinion on unsolicited advice. Sometimes people are afraid to ask a question, or they are just lurking, or wouldn't have even thought of a particular subject if it hadn't been brought up by someone else. This is a HAIR BOARD, so I think advice of any kind should be welcomed and encouraged! If someone doesn't like the advice given or the topic being discussed, leave the thread and don't comment. I noticed that there was a ratings discussion in CG's thread as well, but I never rate threads or pay attention to them anyways, so that really doesn't matter to me. If the advice is helpful, I take it and move on. If there are folks rating these types of threads badly, I think it's b/c they probably ASSUME that it's the same old natural vs. relaxed debate and rate it without reading the entire thread. I think CG's thread was positive, and even contained some constructive criticism of her original post without getting nasty. The whole relaxed/natural thing is always gonna be a touchy subject, but if everyone remembers that you can do what you want to do with YOUR hair, then there's really no need for debate. I think this topic flares up when you have ppl with deep seeded issues that they haven't dealt with on BOTH SIDES. This response is in no way meant to offend the OP, but I just think that we all need to remember that our real purpose on this forum is to grow long, healthy hair, whether it's relaxed, natural, or anywhere in between.

I agree with you. Lord knows I lurked for too long and I've definitely taken a lot of unsolicited advice so I'll scratch that statement. I just wanted to start it off. And no offense taken

 

[LadyJay114]

I never knew there was a beef...

 

[so1913]

LOL, I see it as this.

We are all STRONG BLACK WOMAN WITH VARYING OPINIONS!!!!!

In the end, this board serves it's purpose and serves it well. There will always be debates, disagreements, and discussions. I think that the majority of us support one another in our goals, regardless of our hair state. I think we'll be ok

 

[Country gal]

Once again it is a mental thing. If you are feeling sensistive because you are a natural or a relaxed than that is your own issue. I have been relaxed longer than I have been natural. When I was relaxed I didn't feel offended when I read natural geared threads. If anything I learned alot and it served as research for me to finally go natural. Going natural was something I planned to do later in life but the helpful information helped me to make the decision faster. A decision I weighed very seriously. I don't sense a beef at all. I haven't seen any threads purposely downgrading relaxed heads or naturals in a very long time. If you think there is beef here regarding relaxed and naturals than I can kindly point you too a board that will give a reality check. A board that doesn't encourage discussions of hair types and curl/coil definition.

Making mountains out of molehills comes to mind.

 

[Country gal]

LOL, I see it as this.

We are all STRONG BLACK WOMAN WITH VARYING OPINIONS!!!!!

In the end, this board serves it's purpose and serves it well. There will always be debates, disagreements, and discussions. I think that the majority of us support one another in our goals, regardless of our hair state. I think we'll be ok

Well said. I cheer on any woman that achieves her hair goals. It is hard work getting to a healthy hair state. I am happy for anyone who has achieved their goals.

 

[Poohbear]

I don't see beef and I also don't see unsolicited advice given...all I see is just a variety of stated and expressed opinions, views, and feelings on the subject of relaxed hair and natural hair as well as some varying levels of sensitivity. This is a 'discussion' forum with different people and different personalities. No need for separation. Its always good to get insight from everyone. You can even get insight from people you disagree with.

 

[Country gal]

There is no beef. On LHCF for the most part, everyone knows and understands their decisions will be respected and supported. We have had ladies go natural and then back to relaxing or texturizing when they wanted a change or couldnt handle it. When they try to go natural again, or decided to relax again, they still get the same amount of support

Hair is a personal issues, there is a lot of emotions tied to it. If it werent we wouldnt feel so bad when it looks bad or feel great when it looks great. I've noticed that most people dont respond to a thread they think may be divisive on the board, because people tend to bring in a lot of views and experiences from outside LHCF and drama starts. I'm not saying those views arent valid, I've had my share of negative experiences, tho mostly family in nature. I'm just saying that you NORMALLY wont get that experience from the members here. I have never been made to feel that being natural is militant on LHCF, this forum is the REASON I was able to go natural. Not saying that hasnt been anyone elses experience, but it hasnt been mine.

I have seen people make a lifestyle change, such as going natural, removing parabens, eating organic, stopping smoking etc and think that their new found life changing revelation is for everyone. They give advice that comes across as commands out of good intentions and excitement for their new knowledge, but not everyone is ready , willing or interested in making these types of changes. I'm natural, I cut out parabens everychance I get. That wont stop me from recommending a product that I've used in the past that I know works well to someone who isnt cutting that out of their program. I will still relax my nieces or sister's hair if they ask me.

We dont need to draw attention to every post that gets two stars. Just rate it more if you feel it is warranted. I dont read based on stars tho, and I dont know how much stock others put in them.

Exactly. Another excellent post. This is a forum. A place to share ideas, experiences, suggestions. We can choose to either skip a thread or add to the discussion. I think some of us take what is said as a personal affront and take things to heart too much. I don't care about ratings. I don't subcribe to rating threads. If something is good to me than I can post it directly, I don't need to hide behind a rating. I say what I say and keep it moving. If folks get it great, if they don't okay. I had to learn this principle the hard way.

 

[Soleado]

I agree with you. Lord knows I lurked for too long and I've definitely taken a lot of unsolicited advice so I'll scratch that statement. I just wanted to start it off. And no offense taken

So do I, and I am sure that there are plenty more who lurk a lot as well.

 

[Soleado]

Exactly. Another excellent post. This is a forum. A place to share ideas, experiences, suggestions. We can choose to either skip a thread or add to the discussion. I think some of us take what is said as a personal affront and take things to heart too much. I don't care about ratings. I don't subcribe to rating threads. If something is good to me than I can post it directly, I don't need to hide behind a rating. I say what I say and keep it moving. If folks get it great, if they don't okay. I had to learn this principle the hard way.

I have seen this a lot while in lurk mode. A lot of times people are pulling from their own IRL experiences, and folks seem to think that a post is directly pointed at them. Sometimes you need to ask yourself why you are getting so defensive about a general topic or post.

 

[Priss Pot]

Me, personally, I love my relaxed hair. I think that a black woman's hair is soooo versatile that we can wear just about any style that we want, that's the beauty of OUR hair (no matter if it's natural or relaxed). My boyfriend's brother and his girlfriend advocate being natural and converse (especially around me) about Black women not loving their natural hair all because of what White people thought was beautiful...straight hair. Yes, I do agree that back then when relaxers were first introduced, Black women mainly did it because they didn't think that their own natural texture was beautiful. Today, I think that more women are getting back in touch with their natural texture and are loving it. I'm all for women being natural or relaxed. If you're getting your hair relaxed because of what the "White standards" are, then you need to evaluate yourself. You're beautiful, including all of the kinks!!!! But if you're doing it as part of being versitle, personal choice, etc. then I think that's fine. Hearing people in this world condemn relaxed heads make me think hard about why I relax. Am I relaxing because straight hair is often taken as more beautiful? Or am I relaxing because it's just my choice? Me personally, I like my relaxed hair. I love the smooth rollersets and wraps that I can get with it. I'm now stretching my relaxers, and as I'm starting to see more and more of my new growth, I'm actually really liking my natural 4a texture (even though it's still a struggle dealing with the 2 textures). No, I'm not transitioning or anything, but I believe that with either texture (relaxed or natural), I'd love my hair, and I wouldn't dare condemn anyone for choosing one over the other. That's just my opinion, and I hope that we all as Beautiful Black Queens (speaking in general) learn to respect each other and each other's decisions.

 

[africa]

@OP. I appreciate your intent and think it is a good conversation to have.

I also agree with SO1913 because we are all strong black women. Talking about hair with black women is bound to bring up issues because it usually isn't "just hair" and we see that pop up on the board.

My 2 cents is if you have something to say just say it. Nobody can come hunt you down in cyberspace . At least I hope not

 

[curlilocs]

I agree with another poster in that there is a lot of emotion tied to talk about hair, and there are enough unresolved issues surrounding hair within the two groups without the added drama of debate between the two. However, I find this to be one of the most cohesive and supportive hair boards around, and I have never sensed any beef b/w natural and relaxed heads.

 

[Healthb4Length]

I never knew there was a beef...

You and me both! I think Naturals and relaxed heads get equal amounts of love here. That's why I like this site so much.

 

[isioma85]

I think we should all look to the very name of this board: LONG Hair Care Forum. I believe as long as your hair is growing, whether it's natural or relaxed, you're in good standing. And while it may be true that some people unintentionally put down relaxed ladies on the board with their statements on natural hair, I believe they don't mean to.

Let's keep our eyes on the prize people, chant with me: LONG HAIR, boumbaye, LONG HAIR, boumbaye....

 

[Priss Pot]

Long hair, healthy hair...amen to that

 

[so1913]

I think we should all look to the very name of this board: LONG Hair Care Forum. I believe as long as your hair is growing, whether it's natural or relaxed, you're in good standing. And while it may be true that some people unintentionally put down relaxed ladies on the board with their statements on natural hair, I believe they don't mean to.

Let's keep our eyes on the prize people, chant with me: LONG HAIR, boumbaye, LONG HAIR, boumbaye....

And that can go the other way around....many naturals get offended when relaxed ladies talk negatively and down about their own natural hair which may be similar to the natural ladies, so sometimes they kinda take it to heart sometimes ...and that too is unintentional.

But I'm chanting with ya!
LONG HAIR, boumbaye, LONG HAIR, boumbaye!

LOL!!!

 

[PaperClip]

And that goes the other way around....many naturals get offended when relaxed ladies talk negatively and down about their own hair textures that is similar to the natural ladies, and that too is unintentional.

But I'm chanting with ya!
B]LONG HAIR[/b], boumbaye, LONG HAIR, boumbaye

LOL!!!

I think that this is what hurts a little...even though it's not directed toward me personally, I guess I take it personal 'cause it's like hearing that the natural texture is ugly.... But I got to get over that....

I'm in on that chant as well...LONG HAIR, boumbaye, LONG HAIR, boumbaye!!!!

 

[sweetcashew]

I don't see beef and I also don't see unsolicited advice given...all I see is just a variety of stated and expressed opinions, views, and feelings on the subject of relaxed hair and natural hair as well as some varying levels of sensitivity. This is a 'discussion' forum with different people and different personalities. No need for separation. Its always good to get insight from everyone. You can even get insight from people you disagree with.

I agree with what you said. This board is a wealth of knowledge and I'm totally grateful for everyone's opinions, views and tips.
I'm learning so much about caring for natural hair from this board because the truth is I have nieces who are natural, whose parents look to me for advice and I plan on having little natural babies of my own some day, so any info I get I gobble it up.
Now I do have a problem with those people who do not respect others opinions and want to come hostile at you. With those people I just block them. End of story!
But for the most part I don't see a 'beef' going on at all!

 

[Priss Pot]

When I have me a little baby girl one day, I will not relax her hair. I will nurture her hair the texture that it is, and when she becomes of age where she can honestly say that she wants a relaxer, then I'll do it. I love my Mommy, but I won't do to my child what she did to me. She got tired of fooling with my thick natural hair when I was 6 so she did the quick fix and relaxed it. When I think about it, I sometimes wish she hadn't relaxed my hair, all so that I could have had more experience with my natural hair. Ah well, I think that both sides of the fence (relaxed / natural) are beautiful when well taken care of, that's just my opinion.

 

[sareca]

I see beef! Even tho I was natural for most of my life, I generally avoid threads started by naturals unless the subject says something atypical. I don't like being called corrupted, a slave, or scared because I changed my hairstyle. Call me crazy.

ETA: I LOVE my hair! (natural or relaxed)

 

[missann]

And that can go the other way around....many naturals get offended when relaxed ladies talk negatively and down about their own natural hair which may be similar to the natural ladies, so sometimes they kinda take it to heart sometimes ...and that too is unintentional.

Ding Ding Ding!!! This is right on the money. A lot of black women may be unintentional with this, but the contradiction is so evident in their conversation.

Just a few hours ago a coworker told me she couldn't go natural b/c her texture isn't like mine. Sweet girl, but she basically said "nappy hair is ugly" without stating those words verbatim.

Also, people complain about their new growth (not just line of demarcation problems) and justify relaxing b/c their natural hair is "nappy" instead of curly. What's wrong with nappy? How could your own natural hair be unacceptable?

 

[sareca]

Ding Ding Ding!!! This is right on the money. A lot of black women may be unintentional with this, but the contradiction is so evident in their conversation.

Just a few hours ago a coworker told me she couldn't go natural b/c her texture isn't like mine. Sweet girl, but she basically said "nappy hair is ugly" without stating those words verbatim.

Also, people complain about their new growth (not just line of demarcation problems) and justify relaxing b/c their natural hair is "nappy" instead of curly. What's wrong with nappy? How could your own natural hair be unacceptable?

I've heard people say 3's shouldn't get props for being "natural" anymore than 1's should. I'm not saying I agree, but I do see that 3's don't have the same stigmas. Maybe that's what she meant.