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SPIN-OFF: Black people with Type 1 Hair
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There is no such thing.
toinette
Tricking the president
model_chick717 said:
exactly. i personally dont think there are black people with type 1 hair. thats my opinion and i am sticking to it. do we see africans (i.e. subsaharan africans) who i am thinking (maybe erroneously) may be the least mixed group of black people with type 1 hair? show me one and then i'll believe that it is possible for type 1 hair to grow out of a negroid scalp.
MissMarie
***sigh***
This thread definitely has some interesting and diverse views.
Since the OP simply asked about Black people with type 1 hair I assumed she referred to all Black people. Not just Blacks with completely unmixed parentage or ancestry, Blacks from only certain regions of Africa, or Blacks that had specific "Negroid" features.
If we include the many limitations expressed in this thread on what a "real" Black person is how many women posting on this board are "for-real Black people"? I know no one in my family can make an indisputable claim to a completely "Negroid" African ancestry, but yet we are all black from the fairest to the darkest.
IMHO, a creole of color, a person of mixed parentage/ancestry, and a Latina of African descent (if these individuals choose to acknowledge and identify with their African/Black heritage) are all Black people. And its really weird to me for Blacks in the diaspora to judge the "Blackness" of native Africans.
And actually, since the original question didn't define what was meant by "Black", Australian Aborigines and South Asians do kinda apply since communities in both areas identify themselves as Black (which is not to say that they consider themselves part of the African Disapora).
It is interesting to me that in the thread about Whites with type 4 hair there wasn't this debate about who qualified as a bonified white person. Historically Italians, the Irish and Jews were not perceived to be true Whites. So I guess they aren't good examples of Whites with 4a hair, cuz they're only kinda white, huh?
To answer the original question my great-grandmother's sister had type 1 hair. I think my ggrandmother may have been kinda close, high 2 maybe? She's the fourth pic in my album, not sure if she had curled the ends.
Since the OP simply asked about Black people with type 1 hair I assumed she referred to all Black people. Not just Blacks with completely unmixed parentage or ancestry, Blacks from only certain regions of Africa, or Blacks that had specific "Negroid" features.
If we include the many limitations expressed in this thread on what a "real" Black person is how many women posting on this board are "for-real Black people"? I know no one in my family can make an indisputable claim to a completely "Negroid" African ancestry, but yet we are all black from the fairest to the darkest.
IMHO, a creole of color, a person of mixed parentage/ancestry, and a Latina of African descent (if these individuals choose to acknowledge and identify with their African/Black heritage) are all Black people. And its really weird to me for Blacks in the diaspora to judge the "Blackness" of native Africans.
And actually, since the original question didn't define what was meant by "Black", Australian Aborigines and South Asians do kinda apply since communities in both areas identify themselves as Black (which is not to say that they consider themselves part of the African Disapora).
It is interesting to me that in the thread about Whites with type 4 hair there wasn't this debate about who qualified as a bonified white person. Historically Italians, the Irish and Jews were not perceived to be true Whites. So I guess they aren't good examples of Whites with 4a hair, cuz they're only kinda white, huh?
To answer the original question my great-grandmother's sister had type 1 hair. I think my ggrandmother may have been kinda close, high 2 maybe? She's the fourth pic in my album, not sure if she had curled the ends.
InsertCleverNameHere
Well-Known Member
I don't think its common for a person without a direct mixture to have type 1 hair but i wouldnt say its impossible. I personally have never met a non- directly mixed person with type 1 hair.
My grandmother who passed away over a decade ago had type 1 hair and considered herself to be a black woman. Yes she was mixed, she was 1/4 black and my great- grandmother did as well but she was half black (at least I think it was type 1, I should ask my mother...I'm going by photos). However, even then, my grandmothers hair was not like a white persons or asian persons despite it being straight. She used to describe her hair as like "wire brush" meaning it was thick and coarse like wire. She was not at all happy with her hairtype, lol. I also want to add that she was born with softer wavier hair in relation to the person that said sickness can change hair type. She had smallpox as a child and her hair came out and she almost died. It grew back a different texture.
But better believe that the rest of us who have more African blood in us in my family do not have type 1 hair or even close to it. In fact only one has type 2 hair and even that is debateable, lol! So I don't understand the confusion, the more black you have, the more likely you have type 3 and 4 hair. It's not impossible to have other types, just more common.
My grandmother who passed away over a decade ago had type 1 hair and considered herself to be a black woman. Yes she was mixed, she was 1/4 black and my great- grandmother did as well but she was half black (at least I think it was type 1, I should ask my mother...I'm going by photos). However, even then, my grandmothers hair was not like a white persons or asian persons despite it being straight. She used to describe her hair as like "wire brush" meaning it was thick and coarse like wire. She was not at all happy with her hairtype, lol. I also want to add that she was born with softer wavier hair in relation to the person that said sickness can change hair type. She had smallpox as a child and her hair came out and she almost died. It grew back a different texture.
But better believe that the rest of us who have more African blood in us in my family do not have type 1 hair or even close to it. In fact only one has type 2 hair and even that is debateable, lol! So I don't understand the confusion, the more black you have, the more likely you have type 3 and 4 hair. It's not impossible to have other types, just more common.
baglady215
Well-Known Member
Poohbear said:Why is it hard to believe there's blacks with type 1 or 2 hair (their whole head doesn't have to be totally all type 1 or 2), but you can believe there's whites with type 3 or 4 hair in their head???
*just a question to throw out there in this debate*
Beacause I've SEEN white people with type 3 and 4 hair. I've never SEEN a black person with type 1 or 2 hair.
ccd
New Member
MissMarie said:
EXCELLANT! Post....... I completely agree that being black should not be limited to only people in Africa....that is not really fair or accurate. In any case I have seen a black women with type 1...she is a cousin who lives in Haiti....she is a dark skinned lady with straight hair.....and yes, you can debate her heritage but I dont see the point.
Also, my grandmother*s sister and their mother had straight hair (as for my greatgrand mother, Im never met her but in pictures you can see her hair texture is straight and could be wavy so who knows
I know that in society, you can be the lightest black person in the room, lighter than a white person and you are still considered black by some, not black enough by others
so are these questions really fair, considering the history of the world? people migrate, intermix and *new* types of folks are created so whos definition is right.
Vintagecoilylocks
New Member
Well I would like to ask all the poeple who say it is not 100% Black to have straight hair this. At what point did the black and kink develope its characteristics you claim are exclusive. I believe we are from one female and male from the african continent. I am traditional bible version but irrigardless many believe the differances evolved due to environment. So question which came first the kink/black or the straight./white? How do you know "100%Blacks" did not originally have straight hair and light skin and it evolved due to environment to kink/black. Then whites just kept the original? this could account for Aborigines STILL having straight hair while only their skin adjusted to environment. Also the claims from Africans of no known mixture yet many being lighter with straight to straight hair. It is well known that the Moors occupied(yes occupied) deep into the european continent for hundreds of years. So maybe whites with kink just got a new dose of the newer type hair. 
This is fun isn't it.
This is fun isn't it.
toinette
Tricking the president
MissMarie said:
think of this from a scienctific point of view. for research purposes, if you were trying to figure out if it was possible for black poeople to grow type 1 hair, would u include creoles in your sample??? no, because they have mixed ancestry. would you include a black latina??? maybe not because they are of mixed ancestry. african-americans and caribs??? we know the sotory on that one. nobody is sayign they arent black, but for the purposes of answerign your question you are gonna want a sample that is most representative of your target population, and those people just dont cut it. of the peope who do, subsaharan africans, i have never seen any with type 1 hair. maybe there are, show me a pic and i'll believe it.
Vintagecoilylocks
New Member
I am just trying to say that it is not a given that the original man was dark with kinky hair. So for those who do believe in the single line of genes it could be that the original was fair with straighter hair. Looking at the peoples of the area like the so called origins of man or the Garden af Eden if you will they are light skinned with straighter and dark hair. The extemes such as very dark and kink to very pale or colorless and white straight straight hair are further from those areas. And are the extreme north and south. Thus the need to evolve in further different directions for environment. Then as food and wars the continuing to reintroduce the newer developements back into the original. One could not say that Arabs have straight hair because of being mixed with white.
Vintagecoilylocks said:Well I would like to ask all the poeple who say it is not 100% Black to have straight hair this. At what point did the black and kink develope its characteristics you claim are exclusive. I believe we are from one female and male from the african continent. I am traditional bible version but irrigardless many believe the differances evolved due to environment. So question which came first the kink/black or the straight./white? How do you know "100%Blacks" did not originally have straight hair and light skin and it evolved due to environment to kink/black. Then whites just kept the original? this could account for Aborigines STILL having straight hair while only their skin adjusted to environment. Also the claims from Africans of no known mixture yet many being lighter with straight to straight hair. It is well known that the Moors occupied(yes occupied) deep into the european continent for hundreds of years. So maybe whites with kink just got a new dose of the newer type hair.
This is fun isn't it.
I do not believe a Black person can have straight hair without a chemical. My belief will NOT change. IF a "Black" person has naturally straight hair, they are not all Black. They got the hair texture from White, Indian, etc. blood. The "One Drop Rule" does not work for me. A person that is 1/4 Black is not a Black person. I do not remember seeing any slaves with bone straight hair. This issue is quite hilarious.
MissMarie
***sigh***
Yes I know of South Asians that refer to themselves as Black. (My dad's cousin married one, she considers her race to be Black and her ethnicity to be Indian) There are communities in the south of India where the people identify as Black, some are of distant African ancestry, others not. Likely the majority of Indians would not refer to themselves as Black, but that is a large and diverse nation and there are many communities that exist over there that are not represented in the immigrant communities in the west.
ccd
New Member
What I find most interesting in this thread is to see how unaware we are of the diapora and of ourselves as black women, people, whatever....no wonder we can be fooled into believing whatever the dominant culture wants, history can be rewritten because we buy anything
and what it means to be black......and also our willingness to dismiss certain people as not THAT black, or not as black based on features, texture hair ect....
There seems to be a general consensus that black comes in One Size and One
Image......Eyptians are black arent they? and I dont believe they All Look one particular way.....Aborigianal people ....arent they black? Anyone see a person from Madagascar (which is located in Southern Africa, near Mozambique....and yes, they were a french colony at one point so I guess they arent really Black either)
Also, the original thread didnt get so much attention perhaps because white culture is define and accepted, no one argues with what is considered white.....no onem questioned whether the Jews with kinky hair are part black ( Aka....semites/semi)
It seems that everything in between Black and White is an other
and what it means to be black......and also our willingness to dismiss certain people as not THAT black, or not as black based on features, texture hair ect....
There seems to be a general consensus that black comes in One Size and One
Image......Eyptians are black arent they? and I dont believe they All Look one particular way.....Aborigianal people ....arent they black? Anyone see a person from Madagascar (which is located in Southern Africa, near Mozambique....and yes, they were a french colony at one point so I guess they arent really Black either)
Also, the original thread didnt get so much attention perhaps because white culture is define and accepted, no one argues with what is considered white.....no onem questioned whether the Jews with kinky hair are part black ( Aka....semites/semi)
It seems that everything in between Black and White is an other
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MissMarie
***sigh***
toinette said:
If you think about the issue from a scientific basis you'll completely undermine what you are trying to research. There is no scientific basis for this concept of "for-real Blacks", or "Negroid Africans". The phenotypic diversity that people fixate on is simply a result of humans adapting to different environments. Actual genetic diversity is greatest within Africa, within the very regions that we're trying to stereotype as having the only "real" Black people. These people have adapted, changed, migrated and intermarried as have most communities of humans, such as the other African groups that are being deemed here as not Black enough. There are no, and have never been strict boundaries between populations, so there is nothing to guarantee that all sub-Saharan groups are only descended from ancestors that looked exactly as they look now.
If people from Somalia and Ethopia are not really Black because there has been some intermixture over the millenia with Arab groups, then Italians, Jews and Gypsies are not really White and should not have been included in the other discussion.
There is no biological/scientific basis for race at all. Race is a social construct. So to answer your question, yes I would consider African-Americans, Creoles, Afro-Latinas, etc to be Black because socially there are Black. The OP didn't ask if people knew of unmixed, Black, sub-Saharan Africans with type 1 hair, she just asked about Blacks period. So if individuals in these groups have the ability to grow type 1 hair, then I would say, yes there are Black people that have that type of hair. I don't believe in this idea of quintessential Blacks, to me I'm just as Black as an individual from the Congo. They obviously have greater African ancestry then I (;-)) but IMO "Blackness" is not dependent on blood quantification, its useless (to me) to go digging through someone's family tree to try and gauge how Black they are. Someone can't be more Black than someone else, Black is Black.
Also, for those against the idea of Black being inclusive (one-drop rule), what would happen to the Black community if all those who weren't considered Black enough were told they couldn't be Black anymore? In the Western Hemisphere there basically wouldn't be a Black community anymore. I think its a slap in the face to those who came before us to create these restrictions on who is or isn't a real Black person given that they struggled to make things better for all people of African descent. In the US at least, many of our greatest leaders were individuals who could not boast of a completely unmixed African ancestry. IMHO Black is Black whether its blue or brown eyes, straight, curly or kinky hair, thin or full features.
(sorry this is so long)
