The View Talking About Good Hair

[Kranbery]

I really am sorry if it is too much truth to handle

But seriously. You dont think there is something wrong with the bolded? Why were all the black girls relaxing their hair?

So if ur concern is simply about fitting in, i assume you would happily stop straightening your hair and go natural if a majority of the black women in your social circle/at your job/in your family stopped straightening their hair and went natural?

Okay. If that is what you want to believe....
And yes, fitting in was important to me when I was in school, as it was to most, if not all, people at that age, which is why I chose to relax. The "hidden" reasons why the other black girls relaxed did not matter to me.
But anyway, I'm going to let this go now.

 

[Celestial]

Dang I wonder if most whites think like that.

I don't think they do. Barbara Walters probably was just being smart and playing mind games...she always do.

 

[jennboo]

Okay. If that is what you want to believe....
And yes, fitting in was important to me when I was in school, as it was to most, if not all, people at that age, which is why I chose to relax. The "hidden" reasons why the other black girls relaxed did not matter to me.
But anyway, I'm going to let this go now.

But you didn't address my other statement lol...

 

[princessnad]

Right now I am thinking that this movie is perpetuating the myth that black hair is "bad". I hope after seeing it I find that I am wrong.

I agree... except I will NOT be seeing it.

And white chicks can miss me with the whole hair straightening thing. Err single one of my white "friends" had a flat iron that they use on a daily basis to get rid of every single wave, kink and curl.

Yes, straight hair conforms to American beauty standards but it goes across racial boundaries. It has nothing to do with wanting to be white in this day and age. Show me a black girl that looks white BECAUSE her hair is relaxed then I may reconsider my stance.

 

[Giselle685]

I don't think they do. Barbara Walters probably was just being smart and playing mind games...she always do.

Is Barbara Walters still rocking shoulder pads?erplexed

 

[jennboo]

I don't think they do. Barbara Walters probably was just being smart and playing mind games...she always do.

You know, i wouldnt even be surprised if they all thought that. Much evidence points to it.

 

[Celestial]

What I don't like is that he is solely talking about black women....He is not informing, he is exploiting...

(Exactly Babs.....What is he going to tell his daughter? after this?)

What does his wife think of this? I don't feel like he has honored Black women in any way shape or form......

He have yet to disrespect or dishonor black women in any shape or form. What is it that black women want him to say.

 

[princessnad]

But seriously. You dont think there is something wrong with the bolded? Why were all the black girls relaxing their hair?

Yes, it is a problem that everyone thinks that there is only one standard for beauty. But that includes all races. Straight hair is the current standard. In the 80's it was big curly hair. Really... it don't think it has to do with deep seated needs to race transfer

 

[Kranbery]

But you didn't address my other statement lol...

Okay. I actually am natural now. I decided to do it in college because I got bored with relaxed hair.

 

[Celestial]

Well with the highlights on this show....where he was trying to sell the "black hair" people said ..ooooo no body wants that, not even black women......


the only place that would want that is Fed Ex to PACK BOXES!!! And to have men say they can't touch a black women's scalp..... He makes it sound like every Black women is wearing a weave first of all....

IDK...I don't feel moved to watch the show..... My hispanic friend saw him on Oprah and thought it was Hilarious... Again I don't think this honors black women in any way

That's very true. Most black men can't touch a black women scalp because she either have braids or weaves or a wig.

 

[jennboo]

Okay. I actually am natural now. I decided to do it in college because I got bored with relaxed hair.

Congrats

 

[Celestial]

I don't understand why it's always an issue of black people trying to look like white people. There are so many other races with straight hair, Asian, Indian, American Indian, Latina, etc.

It seems quite arrogant Barbara to think that when we relax we are trying to look like whites.

That's because Asians, Indians, American Indian, Latina has not affected us as the history of this country is concerned and they are not the dominate group. We have the longest contact and history with whites in America. It is no different than a black person who lightens their skin and people will assume they do so to look more white...not to look more Asian, Indian, American Indian, or Latina.

 

[AllAboutMoi]

I think a person would have to do more than relax their hair before I believe they are trying to fit European beauty standards these days.

 

[jennboo]

Yes, it is a problem that everyone thinks that there is only one standard for beauty. But that includes all races. Straight hair is the current standard. In the 80's it was big curly hair. Really... it don't think it has to do with deep seated needs to race transfer

Not understanding. Can you elaborate please?

 

[Daughter]

1. I'd have preferred it if someone like Spike Lee took on this project; perhaps it would have gone into the historical context and what is considered to be good or bad hair by many black people, and not so much a focus on black women, but black men too (cutting the hair extra low or wearing do-rags so tight to cut off circulation to get waves in the hair, etc)

2. Yes, in 2010 there are many black people with old good hair/bad hair mindset. I've seen more than a few status updates on Facebook from friends saying that "it's retouch time, time to get rid of the naps" and words to that effect. Do a search on Facebook for "good hair" and see what groups come up.

From my own experience and background, I still say some relax/press hair to achieve a look that's anything but nappy. Of course this won't be true for everyone, since from my observations some families are more obsessive about hair texture and skin colour than others. Coming from a family where so-called good hair was very much prized, this was certainly a factor when I relaxed my hair. I used to think my natural hair was unmanageable, but thankfully I've found that looking after and styling 4a/b hair isn't rocket science

 

[Celestial]

I am glad I tape it everyday in case something interesting happens. I am glad Chris did this movie because we need to get over this notion of good hair.

That is the purpose of the movie and that is why he named it "good hair". We all know what he is talking about and he knows we know what he is talking about and he want us to get over it. I don't see how people can get so angry when the movie is honest.

 

[fyb87]

I expected my opinion to offend since this is a great sore spot among black people, but it is what it is . My opinion still stands that black women perm to emulate the white standard of beauty. Too many of us do it, too many of us hold negative views of our natural hair...honestly where do you think this comes from? Honestly, think about it. I know it is difficult as there is a knee-jerk reaction surrounding the issue but try to look at it w/out the emotional piece. The manageability argument is a cop -out,. Manageability has nothing to do with it, black women who perm just prefer straighter hair bc of the negative messages associated with natural hair- that is fine and that is your prerogative if you want to relax, but let's call a spade a spade.

Just as you were giving YOUR opinion I was providing MY opinion. Wasn't actually looking for a debate. I can say for ME and only ME I did NOT get a relaxer to look like the "white standard." As a child I did not see things that way. We were not allowed to watch television and I grew up in New Orleans, LA, which at the time was about 55% black. The black girls I went to school with had either NATURAL hair or JERRIE CURLS. I knew maybe a couple of that had RELAXERS and there were NOT many white people at the school period. My mother didn't have a relaxer nor did any of my family members. So like I said I because I can ONLY speak for MYSELF and NOT anyone else got a relaxer to help ME manage MY hair. I did NOT wear it straight as I stated before (using the magnetic pink rollers on BSL-MBL hair does not give you straight hair at all). I got touch-up twice a year as a teenager (13-19) and once a year until I was 20. Then stopped once I figured out how to do it on my own and NOT go to a stylist. Also, I wore wash-n-go's at least 50% of the time from the ages 18-20. So, yeah....like I said your statement did NOT apply to me and that is ok. We ALL don't do things for the SAME reasons. Stereotyping in my opinion is never a good thing.

Who says black hair isn't manageable?

That's the problem! Be honest. You want your hair to look as manageable to others' eyes. Give me a break. You are trying to fit the European standard of beauty (which, in itself, is a myth as it borrows from women of color). Otherwise, you'd go natural.

Hmm..so mother's put relaxers on their daughters hair because they want their daughters to look "white?"

I don't buy it. If Black women straightened their hair to make it managable then why not just stop at a texturizer that only loosens the curl enough to cut down detangling time? Why relax all of the texture out? They want straight hair. FACT! Yes it's your hair to do whatever you want to do with it but don't give me a snow job. If you want straight hair then you want straight hair admit to it. Black women are not fooling anyone, the world knows we have issues with our hair.

Why are some of these statements generalizing black women. Can we not get past stereotyping?? Aren't we stereotyped enough as a race???

I mean come on....are there not black women on this very forum that get texturizers? So of course not ALL black women want straight hair. If someone wants straight hair, why can't they just want straight hair because that is what they like, that is what they feel looks best on them?? Yes, I do agree that their are SOME black women that relax their hair, color their skin, dye their hair blonde or get weaves or wigs because they are trying to portray something that they are not. But, NOT all women that do those things FEEL that way....NOT ALL black women have issues with their hair besides the occassional bad hair days!

I am greatful I do not have some of these warped views. Stereotyping is a pet peeve of mine. Maybe if I had more black female friends I would have these thoughts as well or if I had grown up being around black women that felt this way or that were relaxed. Guess I was sheltered and I can honestly say I am glad I was.

Time for me to leave the thread!!

ETA: Not looking for responses to my facetious questions because I'm officially out of the thread!!

 

[jennboo]

1. I'd have preferred it if someone like Spike Lee took on this project; perhaps it would have gone into the historical context and what is considered to be good or bad hair by many black people, and not so much a focus on black women, but black men too (cutting the hair extra low or wearing do-rags so tight to cut off circulation to get waves in the hair, etc)

2. Yes, in 2010 there are many black people with old good hair/bad hair mindset. I've seen more than a few status updates on Facebook from friends saying that "it's retouch time, time to get rid of the naps" and words to that effect. Do a search on Facebook for "good hair" and see what groups come up.

From my own experience and background, I still say some relax/press hair to achieve a look that's anything but nappy. Of course this won't be true for everyone, since from my observations some families are more obsessive about hair texture and skin colour than others. Coming from a family where so-called good hair was very much prized, this was certainly a factor when I relaxed my hair. I used to think my natural hair was unmanageable, but thankfully I've found that looking after and styling 4a/b hair isn't rocket science

I agree. BTW, do you have a fotki? Your hair is gorgeous

 

[Kranbery]

1. I'd have preferred it if someone like Spike Lee took on this project; perhaps it would have gone into the historical context and what is considered to be good or bad hair by many black people, and not so much a focus on black women, but black men too (cutting the hair extra low or wearing do-rags so tight to cut off circulation to get waves in the hair, etc)

2. Yes, in 2010 there are many black people with old good hair/bad hair mindset. I've seen more than a few status updates on Facebook from friends saying that "it's retouch time, time to get rid of the naps" and words to that effect. Do a search on Facebook for "good hair" and see what groups come up.

From my own experience and background, I still say some relax/press hair to achieve a look that's anything but nappy. Of course this won't be true for everyone, since from my observations some families are more obsessive about hair texture and skin colour than others. Coming from a family where so-called good hair was very much prized, this was certainly a factor when I relaxed my hair. I used to think my natural hair was unmanageable, but thankfully I've found that looking after and styling 4a/b hair isn't rocket science

Wow. Over 500 groups about hair (not all about "good" hair, but still). Facebook is funny

 

[Celestial]

You know, i wouldnt even be surprised if they all thought that. Much evidence points to it.

I don't think Barbara Walters actually think that. Barbara Walters is good to get people to talk about things that are 'hidden' and should be brought to the open. She just wanted black women opinion on the issue of black women wanting to look white. I highly doubt she really believes black women are trying to look white by straightening their hair. She was actually playing politics so to say.

 

[Daughter]

Thanks jenboo I no longer have a fotki, I deleted it when I was in a post-natal hormonal frenzy I'm thinking of putting up a few pics again though

 

[Daughter]

Wow. Over 500 groups about hair (not all about "good" hair, but still). Facebook is funny

Here's a couple of examples of what I'm talkin' 'bout: http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=g...873038&ref=search&sid=656326801.1160358549..1

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=g...837703&ref=search&sid=656326801.1160358549..1

 

[carameldelight87]

Black women do relax to attain a white standard of beauty. That manageability excuse is a cop-out and we really know what it means. It's fine if you relax, do you, but let's be real about it.

If YOU relaxed ur hair at some point in ur life, to attain a "white standard of beauty" that's fine. But assigning that to everyone is inaccurate and a generalization. Speak for yourself.

There are women who do think white is right, but a relaxer isn't gonna make u look white. A blond wig, some blue contacts, etc will.

Plus, the "white" standard of beauty isn't just straight long hair. White hair has evolved just as much as Black hair has. The pulled back bun used to be the most popular hair style. Along with the short cropped or pin up do. Then the ponytail was a big hit, then the massive over-sprayed look and the super curly perm took over. Now it's more of a straight/wavy look that's popular amongst white women.

We've been wearing relaxers long before straight hair was in style for white women so how can we be mimicking them? If anything they've been mimicking us.

 

[Celestial]

We must understand that straight hair is not consider a style or something that is in style. It is considered the norm because majority of the world population has straight hair. Straight hair is the dominate trait in Europe, Central Asian, Middle East, Asia, South America, and North America and let's not forget that Indigenous North Americans and Amerindians of South America also has straight hair. It is nappy or kinky hair that is different when compared to the rest of the world. So it is not about being "in style", it is just that straight hair is indeed the norm amongst the world's population.

 

[Daughter]

There are women who do think white is right, but a relaxer isn't gonna make u look white. A blond wig, some blue contacts, etc will.

True, but there are people (some of my own family being examples) who prize eurocentric features above black features; such are the ones who claim "I'm on eighth Indian" or "I'm a 16th white", when they look phenotypically black. One family member will mention to anyone who listens that we had mixed ancestors and got upset when someone said that she didn't look like it.

I said all that to say, it's not so much about looking "white", but preferring features that aren't typical of those of sub-Saharan African descent.

 

[carameldelight87]

I swear some of y'all natural sisters make me want put a relaxer in my head just so I don't have to be on this side of ur condescending generalizations. I don't even want to associate with the ideas you girls are entertaining.

U've got to be the most simple-minded person on earth to think that Black women want to be white because of their relaxers. Or that they're concerned with the "white standard of beauty." I'm really embarrassed that u think u can look or talk down to someone simply because u made the decision to go natural.

 

[CurlyMoo]

I like how Oprah twisted it up and mentioned white women as well. She had one of her white employees prove to the viewers that most white women do not have their natural hair color, and have forgotten what their natural hair color was.

I permed my hair 2 years ago because I fell in love with my corworker's waist length hair! I love how coily hair looks, however because I was not properly educated on how to wear my hair straight and coily, I went for the cream crack. Senior year of high school I went to Visible Changes in the mall to get my hair straightened. I lived in Texas at the time and 2 hours later my hair was a poofy from the roots to the center of my hair shaft and dry and hard at the ends. I figured I couldn't rock my hair straight without having a perm. Now I am in LHCF getting all googly eyed over everyone's hair. I did not perm my hair to appear more caucasian. That is not a good way to look at the reason behind women perming their hair.

Asians, Europeans, East Indians, Native Americans, and Hispanics have straight hair. Well ok everybody but us. Although their are those in those groups that have curly hair many are straight and even those with curly hair in that group desires or alters their natural curly texture to straight. And here we are with our springy coils and curls pointing toward the sky. Defying gravity and non-conforming. It's unique.

This society (White folks) has placed Black folks at the bottom of the food chain and ridiculed our uniqueness, many Black people want to conform to those beauty standards that has been presented to us since childhood. We have internalized these standards and have ridiculed each other. It’s a cycle that leads to the majority of Black women wearing their hair straight, bone straight. You want straight hair. Not just “manageable” hair but STRAIGHT HAIR. Like everyone else. We have become a race of conformers instead of pioneers.

Knowing that my hair is unique and closer to what the Creators hair looks like, I'm keeping my coils. Imma ride or die for these coils.

 

[Celestial]

True, but there are people (some of my own family being examples) who prize eurocentric features above black features; such are the ones who claim "I'm on eighth Indian" or "I'm a 16th white", when they look phenotypically black. One family member will mention to anyone who listens that we had mixed ancestors and got upset when someone said that she didn't look like it.

I said all that to say, it's not so much about looking "white", but preferring features that aren't typical of those of sub-Saharan African descent.

Black features tend to be common only amongst black people. "European" features tend to cross wider groups and regions than features that are common amongst Africans. If you noticed it is not only white europeans who have aquiline or narrow noses or lesser thick lips. Those features stretch beyond white european people. I really can't think of a group outside of black Africa who shares black african features with the exception of a small population in asia and the south pacific. We must understand that we do indeed look differently and our hair is indeed differently when compared to the rest of the world and the ratio that others share in common. We as black people just wouldn't fit in. We would stand out the most.

 

[BostonMaria]

I take back my original post....
I'm sooo glad I didn't watch The View today. Chris Rock is a mess and I'm definitely not watching this movie.

 

[CheLala13]

You may not relax your hair to look white now, but that's why it began didn't it? I think a lot of people don't like thinking that maybe just maybe deep down inside they want a white girl's hair, personally. It just reminds me of why people refuse with all their heart not to go natural.

Btw, I do wish they talked to more black men about this issue too. When I talked to my male friend about going natural, he responded with disgust. I told him to imagine me with natural hair and tell me what you think. His thoughts were "too unruly, too nappy, etc." Then I told him to imagine I was mixed with white and he responded more positively. Why do people keep overlooking the "white" factor when it comes to "good" and "straight" hair. You can't just ignore that!

ETA: And I do agree that to a certain extent, ALL women, regardless of race, want to "fit" in.