I wouldn't know if an Arab dyed her hair blonde if it is covered. I already said that those who dye their hair blonde are mainly white women. Most jews are already blonde and those who aren't would most likely look good in it.
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The View Talking About Good Hair
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I wouldn't know if an Arab dyed her hair blonde if it is covered. I already said that those who dye their hair blonde are mainly white women. Most jews are already blonde and those who aren't would most likely look good in it.
We're always going on and on about the history, but when are we gonna to live in the present and decide what's right for us as individuals? What will it take? surely we've been talking about history for so long we should know what "the problem" is, so what's THE PROBLEM?
Well *I* know about what's under the hijab and NO most Jews are not blonde, be they Askanazism (ie Euro) or any other kind. They fact that you think most are blonde tells you just how prominent hair dye is among them.
jennboo
Well-Known Member
As do most women. We're no different than anyone else.
How so? Put things on a level playing field for comparison: Think racially specific/identifying physical characteristics.
Also, think of numbers, prevalence, pervasiveness.
Exemplifying asians who opt to receive eye-lid surgery does not cut it.
Oh I def. have a bias, and it is toward my own natural hair/beauty . Sadly this is not the case with most black women.
It is my opinion that black women relax their hair to attain a white standard of beauty. It just so happens that important historical (and current) evidence (facts) actually support my opinion, there is no way of getting around that. If this is not your opinion, that is fine and I respect that
I fell victim to the belief that straighter hair was more acceptable. Thus, even though my mother was the person who directly initiated the process of indoctrinating that belief (by relaxing my hair), I chose to stick with it as a teenager because it was more acceptable and because it was seen as more beautiful. Not because it was more manageable, (which is the default excuse for perming around these parts). My hair was MOST manageable when i wore it nappturally-natural during parts of my adolescence.
My wanting to be true to myself and stop chemicalizing was due to my envy of other natural type 4 haired classmates, my evolved preference for the look of natural black hair, hair that i naturally possessed. The icing on the cake was when i really took into consideration the historical context surrounding white appeal to blacks (subjugation of Africans by whites, forced assimilation and resulting deadening/stripping of Africans racial and cultural identity, imposing white ideals about beauty/"sophistication"/acceptablility on africans and afr-americans, I found that it could neither be a "preference" nor a coincidence that more than 80% of black women relax their hair, and why many think it is unacceptable to wear their hair in its natural form and are willing to apply a caustic chemical to our heads to attain white ideals of beauty.
This issue is larger than me, it is larger than you. But please believe that it certainly IS an issue in the black community and until we find a way to overcome it we will still be at the mercy of others' ideals of beauty and subsequect resentment when we aren't able to fully attain it.
Its also funny how my wearing afro puffs and being natural plants suspicions about some kind of motive., LOL. As if i couldn't just genuinely be happy about and love my natural texture.This speaks volumes about what black women really internalize about natural hair. (LOL). This is sad, but i guess it is what it is.
Oh and i COMPLETELY agree with the bolded. This is what i try to tell folks all the time!
To whom did you think straight hair was more acceptable, whites or blacks? Blacks seem to be the ones who think this is ideal...so who do you feel more accepted by now that you are natural?
Yes, this is an issue in the Black community, however we can choose how much of it is an issue for us as individuals. I'm a bit tired of the argument that Blacks feel they MUST fit some aesthetic ideal which is impossible for them as well as for most Whites. After trying for all this time and NOT attarining it, when are these folks gonna try something different?
aquajoyice
Well-Known Member
I'm amazed that people think that. So when a white person gets booty implants or lip injections are they trying to look black? That just sounds ridiculous no matter how you spin it!
jennboo
Well-Known Member
To first bolded: Sigh... sadly blacks
. When i was in hs (predominantly black and hispanic) folks always oooh'ed and ahhh'ed over my straight hair. I have no frame of reference for what individual white people thought during that time bc i had no contact with them in my everyday life.Honestly, in a collective racial cultural sense, I guess technically i'm not accepted by anyone with my natch hair, right? Given that natch hair is apparently not the business among blacks or whites.
To second bolded: What about white skin and straighter hair is unattainable by whites? lol
Ang!
Member
That's the saddest thing I think I have ever saw . . . thanks for educating me!
BroadstreetBully
New Member
So you're really going to single out black women and relaxers and the only example of the desire to assimilate? Really?
To first bolded: Sigh... sadly blacks
Honestly, in a collective racial cultural sense, I guess technically i'm not accepted by anyone with my natch hair, right? Given that natch hair is apparently not the business among blacks or whites.
To second bolded: What about white skin and straighter hair is unattainable by whites? lol
Well super white skin they bleach to get (this is coming in style now) as for straight hair, the long blonde trend= flaitirons. They can attain these, yes, but at a cost to themselves. Most whites are born super pale and blonde...or if they are they don't stay that way.
Let's not forget all the pressure they feel on the issue of weight. Blacks feel left out of the ideal simply because the ideal excludes them, no matter how hard they try. Whites feel left out of the ideal because they have to go thru huge drama to come close and even they rarely attain it. In short, this so called ideal is something we'd all do better forgetting and focus on taking care of urselves to the optimum.Now on to Blacks...I figured you say it was more acceptable to Blacks. I personally don't think Whites give Blacks much thought (unless they feel threatened) or care how they do their hair. It's a non issues for them most times.
As for your natural hair....now that you have it, do you care how anyone feels about it?
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jennboo
Well-Known Member
We are only talking about relaxers/hair though, right? I thought thats what this entire thread was about.
But, enough of me being PC, even if this discussion did broaden to include other instances of people assimilating /wanting to attain white ideals of beauty the answer to your question would be:
As destructive and pervasive/COMMONPLACE as its been w/us, YES.
chrisanddonniesmommy
New Member
History resurfaces into the present, if it isn't dealt with. Honestly, the black community will not progress unless it deals with the history that plagues.
Ok...but HOW tho? It's easy to say the above, but that give no solutions. How does one deal w/ this? Perhaps the past has to be accepted and moved on from on an individual level. Perhaps there is no answer. for an entire group.
This is kind of proving the point about the pervasiveness of the yt beauty standard. Over generations it has become normal for bw to severely alter one of their defining characteristics. So now, we're emulating generations of other BW, who have tried to assimilate yt beauty standards.
IMO, that's the same thing, if not an even worse case.
Black haircare is just one aspect of our culture that was lost after the middle passage.
But masses of black women have not been exposed to world cultures; they, their mothers and grandmothers and ancestors have been exposed to, and tried to fit into, white-dominated cultures.
They're all trying to achieve a certain Euro ideal. Yt women just don't have to alter themselves as much as the others. You can throw in Asian eyelid surgeries, Arab nose jobs, African skin lightening, etc. Can you point to a mass of Euros going to extreme lengths to look Asian or African?
True, but...
(Don't forget many African groups who have "the fold." The "norm" argument cannot explain the dominance of Euro standards)
So,
Because some differences are associated with power.
Except we're furthest from the "ideal" and we spend by far the most on cosmetic enhancements. Coincidence? I think not.As do most women. We're no different than anyone else.
Of course they are trying to emulate some aspects of a black beauty standard. But 80% of them aren't doing it. And they have not passed this standard down to the children and grandchildren.
No, you're more of an AA woman because you choose to.
Don't 80% of us do this? I do it, I'm just aware of why. *Kanye shrug*Nope. Jewish people idolizing Aryan looks to the point that as someone said "most of them are blonde" when the holocaust was perpetuated by Aryans is another extreme example. We are just one example of people who were totally dominated by another group and tried to physically assimilate.
ETA - on top of that, when the "blonde-goddess" ideal was created in Hollywood, the movie studios were owned by Jewish people!
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Junebug D
Well-Known Member
Don't know, but preaching to the choir on the hair board surely isn't the answer, I've come to discover.
I think the newfound publicity w/ the Chris Rock movie, Tyra, Oprah, the View is a step in the right direction.
^^^ yup, bingo. This is about people buying into A norm (which numeraically isn't) THE norm. Well let's just wait until the Chinese and Indians take over the world (and it's gonna happen too). We'll all next start trying to look like them 
I'm the one who brought up Jews and dying their hair blonde. Yup.
(PS...I didn't forget about the Africans and the fold...nor Pacific Islanders, but the Chinese were enough to cinch my point! )
I'm the one who brought up Jews and dying their hair blonde. Yup.
(PS...I didn't forget about the Africans and the fold...nor Pacific Islanders, but the Chinese were enough to cinch my point!
)
CurlyMoo
Well-Known Member
And they should should just accept that pale skin, flat rump and baloney thin lips because it's who they are.
CurlyMoo
Well-Known Member
^^^ yup, bingo. This is about people buying into A norm (which numeraically isn't) THE norm. Well let's just wait until the Chinese and Indians take over the world (and it's gonna happen too). We'll all next start trying to look like them
I'm the one who brought up Jews and dying their hair blonde. Yup.
(PS...I didn't forget about the Africans and the fold...nor Pacific Islanders, but the Chinese were enough to cinch my point!
If that's the case we will still be straightening our hair. In western civilization socially Black people have much more influence than Indian and Chinese.
Well not me, but vedic stuff may be cheaper which is a good thing!
I just wonder how the White folk will handle it?! 
that_1_grrrl
New Member
THANK YOU! Straight hair is NOT the norm. Curly hair is more common than straight hair.
Honestly, I wish the whole manageability and straight hair being the norm bs would die out. That is why women of all races in this country (and probably all of the Americas) are frying and relaxing their hair to death. They keep getting fed this nonsense that curly/kinky/nappy/whatever hair is not normal, unmanageable, undesired, and ugly. And yes, part of it does have to do with Whiteness even though White women suffer from this too. Whites took examples of extreme Whiteness (hair texture, eye color, skin color) and put them on a pedestal so that others without those features could feel less than.
So, believe it or not, even White women have to deal with trying to live up to Euro-centric values that do not include their diversity. All races that have been colonized do.
That's the problem about these relaxing debates that go on. A lot of people take it to mean that others are saying that relaxed heads what to look white when that is not what is being said. People are talking about the society as a whole, and the way of thinking in our society that led to majority of a race relaxing their hair and believing that certain hair types were better/more manageable/prettier than others.
Well not me, but vedic stuff may be cheaper which is a good thing!
Increased intermarriage... Sucking up to the ones in charge... I see that trend happening, accepting different cultures more. Giving "model minority" status to some, they getting ready.
CurlyMoo
Well-Known Member
Well not me, but vedic stuff may be cheaper which is a good thing!
Brush up on your chinese.
that_1_grrrl
New Member
Newflash...most of the people on the planet have "the fold".
Yep! So many different ethnic groups in Africa have "the fold". Also, if you consider how much land the Mongols took over, it isn't surprising that so much of the world has "the fold".
It is found in the Americas, in Africa, Central Asia, Southeast Asia, Far East Asia, and Eastern Europe, and ever some Western Europeans have it.
It's like the hair thing. People are told over and over again that what they have is not "normal" or "common" even though the reality says something a LOT different.
That's why it's weird when I hear people say, "Well, Indians/Chinese/Latinos" do blah blah blah" without realizing the fact that those places were indeed colonized too, and the people there were subjected to the same things Black folks were. So, it really is not just a matter of people trying to fit in with a world "norm". No, they were also told they were ugly.
Also, I kinda cringe when people say "Latin@s" because every country is different in racial mix up, so there are different issues going on there. In more "Indian" Latin countries, you're going to see a drive to look/act less "Indian" and in more Black Latin countries, you're going to see a drive to look/act less Black to fit in with the Spanish ideals, which kinda makes me lol considering the Spanish and their history. That's a whole 'nother issue.
ladylibra
New Member
These discussions never cease to entertain me. 
*DISCLAIMER: Please keep in mind, I'm only speaking based off my own experiences, in my own little state of Indiana.*
The phrase "a few bad apples spoil the bunch" comes to mind. Stereotypes are usually based off of a minority in a group - in this case, relaxing to look white/less black or however you wanna phrase it. To be quite honest, I think most black women DON'T put that much thought into it. They think they are making their hair more manageable, they grow up thinking that's what they're supposed to do and it's the only way to take care of black hair. (I know that's the reason I was relaxed from age 6 to age 22.) And let's face it - they tend to be more vocal about it than the majority of us who don't necessarily have negative views about our "blackness" so to speak. They are oftentimes telling anyone and everyone in earshot that they gotta fix their ugly napps and get a new pack of some straight silky Remi weave so they can have that swang and flick it in people's faces.
I mean seriously... if that's all you heard and you didn't know any better, you just might assume that's how most black women who straighten their hair feel. Which is why I make it a point to (politely) re-educate anyone who makes ignorant statements like that when and if I get the chance. Someone has to dispel the myths... I might as well be one of them.
*To be fair though - I most certainly do look less black with straight hair. So I can totally see why a woman wanting to downplay her ethnic features would choose a more "Eurocentric" hairstyle to do so. I'm just sayin. I do not think everyone who wears straight hair is doing this.
*DISCLAIMER: Please keep in mind, I'm only speaking based off my own experiences, in my own little state of Indiana.
*The phrase "a few bad apples spoil the bunch" comes to mind. Stereotypes are usually based off of a minority in a group - in this case, relaxing to look white/less black or however you wanna phrase it. To be quite honest, I think most black women DON'T put that much thought into it. They think they are making their hair more manageable, they grow up thinking that's what they're supposed to do and it's the only way to take care of black hair. (I know that's the reason I was relaxed from age 6 to age 22.) And let's face it - they tend to be more vocal about it than the majority of us who don't necessarily have negative views about our "blackness" so to speak.
They are oftentimes telling anyone and everyone in earshot that they gotta fix their ugly napps and get a new pack of some straight silky Remi weave so they can have that swang and flick it in people's faces.I mean seriously... if that's all you heard and you didn't know any better, you just might assume that's how most black women who straighten their hair feel. Which is why I make it a point to (politely) re-educate anyone who makes ignorant statements like that when and if I get the chance.
Someone has to dispel the myths... I might as well be one of them.*To be fair though - I most certainly do look less black with straight hair. So I can totally see why a woman wanting to downplay her ethnic features would choose a more "Eurocentric" hairstyle to do so. I'm just sayin. I do not think everyone who wears straight hair is doing this.
that_1_grrrl
New Member
Don't feel bad about relaxing. No, it does not make you less of a Black woman if you choose to do it. It has an ugly history, and there are Black women still suffering from that mentality. However, I say just be aware of the past and make your own decisions.
Relaxing just makes your hair less kinky. It doesn't make you less Black.
chrisanddonniesmommy
New Member
I don't have that answer
But, ignoring issues and hoping they go away has been the solution so far for others.
jennboo
Well-Known Member
IMO it most deinitely goes for naturals who ONLY straighten or straighten for a majority of the time.
justicefighter1913
New Member
Interesting that you say this...my Dad said the exact same thing. My Dad seems to think that by allowing a comedian to become the national spokesman on good/hair black hair debate, the discussion will become watered down and fodder for the general public.....
Even though I know the origins of the value we place on straight hair, people relaxing their hair is not even on the list of major problems plaguing the BC, imo.
It's still a style choice - a heavily influenced one - but it's just hair
I don't want people to feel bad that they've made that choice, not at all.
It's still a style choice - a heavily influenced one - but it's just hair
I don't want people to feel bad that they've made that choice, not at all.
Straight hair is the NORM. Curly hair IS NOT more common than straight hair. Almost everyone in the world has straight hair. It is indeed the norm to see and the norm for most people in the world both men and women.
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