The Scoop on Cones: Bad for your hair????

[JazzyDez]

Okay I keep hearing all this bad stuff about "cones" in peoples posts. Like that they are avoiding them for whatever reason or that they are bad for the hair. Someone mentioned NTM had cones it and I read the ingredients and did see that there are a couple of -cones. Dimethicone and Trimethicone. My question is what exactly are cones and what effect do they have on the hair? Are they bad for your hair? Will they dry your hair out in the long run?? I also found some old posts where they said climate can be a factor?? I know some of you hair geniuses out there got the scoop so whats up!! TIA

 

[Eiano]

They work fine for me, and I've been using shampoos and conditioners with cones all my life. . It's all personal.

 

[JazzyDez]

They work fine for me, and I've been using shampoos and conditioners with cones all my life. . It's all personal.

I hope so because I really like this NTM and I would be heartbroken if I found out that it was doing any damage to my hair.

 

[neonbright]

I am not sure what you heard but coming from a dry skin, hair family. This is what I was told by my doctor. "Silicones form a protective layer which helps prevent transdermal water loss -- a very useful characteristic for many products. Silicone gums provide instant shine to hair. Silicones act to help seal moisture into the hair, which helps prevent many kinds of damage."

 

[isawstars]

I think it depends on your hair. If there is a small amount, I can't tell a difference... but if it's high up on the ingredients list (like in most holding spray) it's difficult for me to tolerate. It makes my hair really hard and my hair sticks together making it impossible to finger comb w/o yanking hair.

 

[MizaniMami]

I think it was I that posted a problem about silicones in NTM. The cone I am worried about is the Cytoplexicane (sp?) cone. It is one of the first ingredients. Though I don't mind using cones, I often wonder if using it everyday will cause horrible build-up and not allow ANY moisture to penetrate my hair.

Here is the deal with cones: They are liquid wax that provides the hair with sheen and softness, and in most cases "slip." They aren't bad but they can buildup and cause true moisture to not be able to penetrate the hair strands. Did I mention that they are not moisturizing. But the good thing about cones is they can be taken out, by clarifying. Which some people consider very drying/stripping. I personally don't mind cones in my shampoo/conditioner, but as an everyday moisturizer.... I'm not sure about that.

If you think about it you are layering cone after cone on you hair everyday until wash day. NOW THIS IS NOT TO TELL ANYONE WHAT TO USE. I say if you have been using NTM or a moisturizer with cones then do you thang,*me* I don't like the thought of cone buildup everyday which can cause true moisture not to enter.

 

[JazzyDez]

neonbright: its the protective barrier that I am worried about. I guess that would work well when you first put the product in. But when I remoisturize, I still want to be getting the maximum benefits from the products, without any barriers. Do you think this would be a problem?? I dont want to have to clarify too often. Shine is wonderful, but health is more important. I just want to make sure the shine is not an illusion.

Kristenxdollface: ouch! i dont really use any holding products or gel or hair sheen. I may incorporate some (at a minimum) later. Right now i am wearing protective styles with instant weaves and have no need for them. But thats good to know because I probably wont be trying any holding sprays for that reason

Here is the deal with cones: They are liquid wax that provides the hair with sheen and softness, and in most cases "slip."

Liquid wax! that doesn't sound too good. So judging from what you guys are saying cones do coat the hair and can block penetration (like i said i dont like to clarify too often because I do agree that it does strip the hair). What daily moisturizer do you use?

 

[MizaniMami]

neonbright: its the protective barrier that I am worried about. I guess that would work well when you first put the product in. But when I remoisturize, I still want to be getting the maximum benefits from the products, without any barriers. Do you think this would be a problem?? I dont want to have to clarify too often. Shine is wonderful, but health is more important. I just want to make sure the shine is not an illusion.

Kristenxdollface: ouch! i dont really use any holding products or gel or hair sheen. I may incorporate some (at a minimum) later. Right now i am wearing protective styles with instant weaves and have no need for them. But thats good to know because I probably wont be trying any holding sprays for that reason

Liquid wax! that doesn't sound too good. So judging from what you guys are saying cones do coat the hair and can block penetration (like i said i dont like to clarify too often because I do agree that it does strip the hair). What daily moisturizer do you use?

I don't want you to think cones is the devil. *In my opinion* I don't want to use them in a moisturizer if it is one of the main ingredients. I don't want to illusion of moisture. I want to real thing!

Girl I haven't found a good moisturizer yet, I think I am going to whip up something tonight, if that don't work, I want to try the Kemi Spray conditioner!

 

[JazzyDez]

I don't want you to think cones is the devil. *In my opinion* I don't want to use them in a moisturizer if it is one of the main ingredients. I don't want to illusion of moisture. I want to real thing!

Girl I haven't found a good moisturizer yet, I think I am going to whip up something tonight, if that don't work, I want to try the Kemi Spray conditioner!

Well if you whip up something good be sure to let us know!! (LOL at "whip up something"....we are talking about hair and sound like we are talking about food!)

I see with what you are saying though. I just want to make sure my hair is reaping all of the benefits and pevent setbacks before they happen. I guess the further down the -cones are the better. But I also thought of something. When I moisturize and then coat with some oil like ORS olive oil lotion I am in essence doing the same thing but probably worse! Because when I apply my leave in the next dayit cant possibly be penetrating like it should. Just more product build-up.

 

[Isis]

I see with what you are saying though. I just want to make sure my hair is reaping all of the benefits and pevent setbacks before they happen. I guess the further down the -cones are the better. But I also thought of something. When I moisturize and then coat with some oil like ORS olive oil lotion I am in essence doing the same thing but probably worse! Because when I apply my leave in the next dayit cant possibly be penetrating like it should. Just more product build-up.

That's a good point. Many of us on this board seal in the moisture with an oil and/or serum, which contains silicones. I've never experienced build-up from sealing in my moisture with oil after my leave-in. I rarely need to use a clarifying shampoo. Also, after it has been sealed, it doesn't necessarily last from one day to the next. I moisturize my ends, for example, in the morning and before going to bed. I also wash my hair twice each week, which could make a difference.

I'm just learning about silicones. I stayed away from them all this time because I heard it causes a lot of build-up on the hair and one must clarify often when shampooing. I didn't want to go through all that.
However, I learned all products with silicones are not alike.

There is a thread I started called Aveda Brilliant Serum where some wonderful ladies here shared their experiences with it - all great experiences. I did my own research also and finally bought some. This particular serum does not build-up like many serums do and the silicones in it add lots of shine and eliminate my frizz very well. It happens to contain natural oils which also help seal in the moisture and condition the hair.

Thank you for starting this thread. I'm still learning what silicones does for our hair. For the most part, it sounds like it's beneficial.

 

[JazzyDez]

That's a good point. Many of us on this board seal in the moisture with an oil and/or serum, which contains silicones. I've never experienced build-up from sealing in my moisture with oil after my leave-in. I rarely need to use a clarifying shampoo. Also, after it has been sealed, it doesn't necessarily last from one day to the next. I moisturize my ends, for example, in the morning and before going to bed. I also wash my hair twice each week, which could make a difference.

I'm just learning about silicones. I stayed away from them all this time because I heard it causes a lot of build-up on the hair and one must clarify often when shampooing. I didn't want to go through all that.
However, I learned all products with silicones are not alike.

There is a thread I started called Aveda Brilliant Serum where some wonderful ladies here shared their experiences with it - all great experiences. I did my own research also and finally bought some. This particular serum does not build-up like many serums do and the silicones in it add lots of shine and eliminate my frizz very well. It happens to contain natural oils which also help seal in the moisture and condition the hair.

Thank you for starting this thread. I'm still learning what silicones does for our hair. For the most part, it sounds like it's beneficial.

I wonder about how long your hair can stay moisturized and/or sealed with the cones/oils. Or which lasts longer, the moisture or the sealant. (There is the possibility that your hair could be still sealed/protected, yet it has already soaked up the moisture underneath the sealant??) I'm sure the cones or oil sealant that you use doesn't necessarily last until your next wash, so you may still be able recieve benefits from your moisturizing products the next day. I guess you just have to go by how your hair looks and feels. Am I looking into this too much??

Thanks for the tip. I'm going to check out your post on Aveda Brilliant Serum and see what additional info I can find there as well.

 

[curlilocs]

Here's a link with some info on silicones. HTH!

http://free.hostdepartment.com/h/healthycurls/cones.html

 

[JazzyDez]

Here's a link with some info on silicones. HTH!

http://free.hostdepartment.com/h/healthycurls/cones.html

Thanks! I am going to copy paste from the page because it is very useful information.

From the jessicurl web site (my underline):

"Silicones are viscous oily liquids that coat the hair shaft in gloss, giving the illusion of healthy sheen. As most curly hair tends to be dry and often frizzy, silicones seem like the miracle ingredient to combat these complaints. The downside is that most silicones are not water soluble, and can only be removed with harsh detergents. The very detergents needed to remove the silicones strip the hair of all its natural oils, leaving it stripped and straw-like. This causes the user to think she needs more silicones to combat the dryness. Thus, the cycle begins again. If the user is not using these harsh detergents to remove the silicones, they can build up, creating a barrier on the hair shaft. This barrier prevents moisturizing conditioners from penetrating the hair, further drying it out."
​

My problem is more with harsh shampoos than with silicones. Since non-water soluble silicones will build up if one doesn't use clarifying (i.e., harsh) shampoos to remove them, I try to stay away from them.
However, if a silicone is water soluble it doesn't need a harsh shampoo to remove it, so I'm okay with using a product that includes it.
For a ton more information about sater solubility, check out this thread on Cones, polyquats, ions, and removal of buildup from naturallycurly.com.
Here's a quick cheat sheet from the ingredients article I linked to on the Ingredients Guide page:

Amodimethicone
not soluble in water by itself
Amodimethicone (and) Trideceth-12 (and) Cetrimonium Chloride
mixture that is soluble in water in the bottle*
Behenoxy Dimethicone
sparingly soluble in water
Cetearyl methicone
not soluble in water
Cetyl Dimethicone
not soluble in water
Cyclomethicone
not soluble in water
Cyclopentasiloxane
not soluble in water
Dimethicone
not soluble in water
Dimethicone Copolyol
water soluble
Dimethiconol
not soluble in water
Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
water soluble
Stearoxy Dimethicone
sparingly soluble in water
Stearyl Dimethicone
not soluble in water
Trimethylsilylamodimethicone
not soluble in water
Lauryl methicone copolyol
water soluble​

"Amodimethicone is never water soluble after being applied to your hair. It clings like any other silicone that is not water soluble."
​

 

[KhandiB]

dont have a problem with cones personally

 

[Isis]

Thanks JazzyDez and Curlilocs for the link and posting of the info.

I guess the solution (if there is a problem) is to use serums or products that are water soluable or mostly water soluable.

According to reviews I've read on the net, the Aveda Brilliant Serum is absolutely water soluable. The natural oils added to it conditions the hair so it never feels dry. The first silicone ingredient isn't on that list - Phenyl Trimethicone, which is a moisturizer.

I've already washed my hair twice since using this serum, without clarifying and I'm very happy about that.

 

[JazzyDez]

dont have a problem with cones personally

I haven't really noticed any problems either. But Im still new to this hair care and awareness thing and I kinda just want to make sure that I am doing things right.

 

[JazzyDez]

Thanks JazzyDez and Curlilocs for the link and posting of the info.

I guess the solution (if there is a problem) is to use serums or products that are water soluable or mostly water soluable.

According to reviews I've read on the net, the Aveda Brilliant Serum is absolutely water soluable. The natural oils added to it conditions the hair so it never feels dry. The first silicone ingredient isn't on that list - Phenyl Trimethicone, which is a moisturizer.

I've already washed my hair twice since using this serum, without clarifying and I'm very happy about that.

I am definately going to be trying the Aveda Brilliant Serum.

 

[Cichelle]

One of the reasons I don't use cones is I don't want to ever use sulfate shampoos, which I would need to do to get them out. I recently tried some water soluble cone products and didn't like the results, then felt compelled to use shampoo with sulfates because I didn't believe the cones were really water soluble. I'm a bit fanatic about making sure my hair gets moisturized because it dries out in a quick minute if I'm not careful. I don't need silicones building on my hair and keeping the moisture out. That's what happened to me with Pantene many years back. At first those cones seemed so good to me...and then it all went down hill.

 

[JazzyDez]

One of the reasons I don't use cones is I don't want to ever use sulfate shampoos, which I would need to do to get them out. I recently tried some water soluble cone products and didn't like the results, then felt compelled to use shampoo with sulfates because I didn't believe the cones were really water soluble. I'm a bit fanatic about making sure my hair gets moisturized because it dries out in a quick minute if I'm not careful. I don't need silicones building on my hair and keeping the moisture out. That's what happened to me with Pantene many years back. At first those cones seemed so good to me...and then it all went down hill.

Me too! If I am not CONSTANTLY conditioning/moisturizing my hair it will get crispy dry! Well....thats not actually funny...its scares me! I am really really trying to achieve some length so I'm kinda like on this preventative maintenance thing. What moisturizer do you use and how do you like it??

 

[Cichelle]

Me too! If I am not CONSTANTLY conditioning/moisturizing my hair it will get crispy dry! Well....thats not actually funny...its scares me! I am really really trying to achieve some length so I'm kinda like on this preventative maintenance thing. What moisturizer do you use and how do you like it??

Yeah, the dry hair thing is a drag, aint it? I use natural butters of different kinds. Just finished a container of macadamia nut butter. I have some pistachio nut butter here too and it's pretty good, but I don't like the way it smells, so it's a no-go. I've tried lots of different butters. I think, all in all, my favorite has been hemp seed butter. But many of them seem pretty similar in their moisturizing properties, so it's the consistency that puts one above the other. I want something that goes easily on the hair.

 

[JazzyDez]

Yeah, the dry hair thing is a drag, aint it? I use natural butters of different kinds. Just finished a container of macadamia nut butter. I have some pistachio nut butter here too and it's pretty good, but I don't like the way it smells, so it's a no-go. I've tried lots of different butters. I think, all in all, my favorite has been hemp seed butter. But many of them seem pretty similar in their moisturizing properties, so it's the consistency that puts one above the other. I want something that goes easily on the hair.

so are the butters true moisturizers? Ive never looked into them. (except elasta QP mango butter but im sure that doesnt fall into this category )They sound pricey. So do they just sell them at the health food stores or do u order them online?

 

[Cichelle]

so are the butters true moisturizers? Ive never looked into them. (except elasta QP mango butter but im sure that doesnt fall into this category )They sound pricey. So do they just sell them at the health food stores or do u order them online?

I order them online. Though, you can find butters at health food stores, too. They can be pricey, but it depends on the type. Not everyone likes them. But they work for me better than a lot of other stuff I've tried. Feel free to send me a pm if you have any q's about the various butters and I'll give you my opinion if I've tried the one your interested in. Some of them can be very heavy...so beware.

Oh, I usually buy online from FNWL. But there are other good places that might be less expensive.

 

[esoterica]

neonbright: its the protective barrier that I am worried about. I guess that would work well when you first put the product in. But when I remoisturize, I still want to be getting the maximum benefits from the products, without any barriers. Do you think this would be a problem?? I dont want to have to clarify too often. Shine is wonderful, but health is more important. I just want to make sure the shine is not an illusion.

that's exactly what cones are for. it makes your hair feel better as though the damage from the shampoo has been undone. silicones are for latex clothing and rubber tyres, not hair. soon i'll be making my own products and i wont have to worry about this crap.

 

[HoneyDew]

dont have a problem with cones personally

Same here.

And guys Kenra Clarifying works well for me in removing cones w/o stripping.
Someone mentioned that they felt that Kenra Clarifyign did not really clarify for them. Maybe because it is so mild.

I have used so many other clarifying shampoo and they do strip to remove the cones.

Keracare 1st Lather is great, too.

 

[JazzyDez]

thanks ladies for all of the info . I think I am going to stick with the NTM for now since it is working well for me. But, in the meantime, I will keep my eye open for some of your suggestions and if I find something else that I like, that it is cone free, I will work with it for a while.

 

[MizaniMami]

thanks ladies for all of the info . I think I am going to stick with the NTM for now since it is working well for me. But, in the meantime, I will keep my eye open for some of your suggestions and if I find something else that I like, that it is cone free, I will work with it for a while.

Hey Jazzy,

I made that homemade mix I was telling you about and it works great it has (in a spray bottle):
Nexxus Humectress (about 7 pumps)
Nexxus Keraphix (2 pumps)
1 tbsp of coconut oil
1 tbsp of meadowfoam oil
2 tbsp of castor oil
4-5 ounces of tap water

 

[JazzyDez]

Hey Jazzy,

I made that homemade mix I was telling you about and it works great it has (in a spray bottle):
Nexxus Humectress (about 7 pumps)
Nexxus Keraphix (2 pumps)
1 tbsp of coconut oil
1 tbsp of meadowfoam oil
2 tbsp of castor oil
4-5 ounces of tap water

Thanks mizanimami! that sounds good. Does the added protien in the keraphix make your hair hard at all when you dont wash it out? I have all of the items except the castor oil and the meadowfoam oil. I was planning on purchasing some castor oil anyway (jamaican black kind). Not really sure what meadowfoam oil is. I guess you have the SUPERSIZE bottles of nexxus (they are the only ones i seen equipped with the pumps). I have the regular size squeeze bottles.

 

[MizaniMami]

Thanks mizanimami! that sounds good. Does the added protien in the keraphix make your hair hard at all when you dont wash it out? I have all of the items except the castor oil and the meadowfoam oil. I was planning on purchasing some castor oil anyway (jamaican black kind). Not really sure what meadowfoam oil is. I guess you have the SUPERSIZE bottles of nexxus (they are the only ones i seen equipped with the pumps). I have the regular size squeeze bottles.

Girl, I have only been using it for about 3 days as of now. I don't notice a negative effect from the Keraphix. I love Keraphix and it has never made my hair hard! I don't know if it's just me, plus I think the moisture from the Humectress kind of override the keraphix, hence the fact that i only added about 3 pumps.

And the castor oil that I used is the jamaican black kind. I love that stuff too. Girl I love that nexxus humectress and keraphix and yes I got it in liter sizes I'm such a PJ.

 

[JazzyDez]

Girl, I have only been using it for about 3 days as of now. I don't notice a negative effect from the Keraphix. I love Keraphix and it has never made my hair hard! I don't know if it's just me, plus I think the moisture from the Humectress kind of override the keraphix, hence the fact that i only added about 3 pumps.

And the castor oil that I used is the jamaican black kind. I love that stuff too. Girl I love that nexxus humectress and keraphix and yes I got it in liter sizes I'm such a PJ.

Thanks girl. I can't wait to finish my surge so I can use the spray bottle.

 

[locabouthair]

I've have been dealing with some bad dryness for a while now and I just realized that my daily moisturizer has cones plus my leave in and my serum i also use during the week. My DC might also. I have to check. I do chelate/clarify every month but I still have dryness issues. i swear i'll moisturize and seal and then 15 mins later my hair feels like I didnt put anything in it. It still feels dry.

I think i am going to try to make my own moisture spritz.